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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kahuna Burger" data-source="post: 1072886" data-attributes="member: 8439">Well, now that we've demonstrated the overwhellming guy think that EN world is based on... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f641.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":(" title="Frown    :("  data-smilie="3"data-shortname=":(" /> Moving this part up...The only problem with this theory is that there an assumption (underlying most of your responses, IMHO) that in the social sphere its the women who have to adjust their behaviour to be one of the guys. Men only need to read the book to "handle" that special woman or two in their lives, but women need to learn how to act the right way to get into society. The problem isn't that men and women behave or react differently. The problem (demonstrated very well on this thread) is when either men or women (usually men due to their dominance of our culture) decide that their way is somehow intrinsicly RIGHT and the other side should just get used to it, toughen up, learn to be the same, etc etc.In a word, **CENSORED**. The fact that guys may be used to playing with guys does not in any way mean that women have to become guys to play. It doesn't mean that guy think dynamic is good for the game or essential to the way it is played. What you can do about it is be youself as a gamer and make it clear that the things that make a "gamer" are not the things that make a "guy". true, once you accept the guy definitions of emotions - that is that anger is not "emotional". If my printer jams up when I'm on a deadline and I shed a tear thats "emotional" to a guy. When his printer jms up and he lets loose a string of obscinities and swears he's gonna throw it out the window, that generally isn't. (note, this comes from a long multimember conversation on USENET years ago (which I only observed) in which the males on the group would contort themselves amazingly to show that anger was "better" than sadness as a response to stress.) The fact that guys express their emotions/stress differently from women isn't a problem - But the guy think comes in when women learn the differences and men just continue to say "women are emotional, guys aren't".and when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail... Guys who get too hung up on problem solving become problem creators. The idea that any situation has "the solution" out there is part of the problem, not an excuse for it.see above. men and women are equally emotional, and feelings (ego, dominance, need to prove themselves) are just as laced into male responses as women. But the responses come out differently. Again, it's an emotional response. Its ego, pure and simple. Couching it as a vital survival trait is all well and good, certainly makes it seem like something everyone should be doing, but its not. Its just one of the emotional responses guys have. Since its a lot easier for guys to continue on their way interacting only with enshrined guy think it rarely gets challenged, but when it has been challenged, men are just as capable as women of overcoming their instinctive/early socialized response and making a more useful response. Though not, obviously, if when confronted with it they simply respond "cause thats the way men are and its the right way, if I didn't act this way right now you womenfolk would have gotten eaten by a sabertooth tiger back when..."This isn't a man woman thing, its a dominate culture/dominated culture thing. But the overall culture improves when the exchange of attitudes goes both ways. There is nothing instrinsic to RPGs that requires guy think. If your particular social/rpg group is deeply entreched to the point where you will only accept guys and "guys with breasts" thats one thing, but its not the way rpging is, its just the way you are. So to the orriginal questions, yes a lot of these are "guy behavious". But when they are so completely entrenched and unwilling to adjust, they become "jerk behaviours".  Guys who are not jerks may still have some of these behavious compared to women who have not been guyed, but they have learned to be gamers first. When looking for a new group, I'd look for one that already has woman members (who aren't ashamed of being women) and/or know some of the guys socially first so you can get a feel for how well socialized they are with mixed gender interaction. Though the best strategy for me has just been to form the group myself and make it clear from the outset what behaviours I will and won't tolerate.we now return you to your regularly scheduled testosterone love fest....Kahuna burger</blockquote>

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