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<blockquote data-quote="steeldragons" data-source="post: 8455273" data-attributes="member: 92511">These choices are too limited/limiting. There is no reason it has to be one or the other. Equally, there is no reason &quot;narrow list with narrow choices&quot; or &quot;wide open with tons of choices&quot; need be the only alternatives. You can easily have a list that is &quot;both and&quot;... all things to all people with the limitations simply placed by the player and how &quot;in depth&quot; or &quot;shallow&quot; (mechanically or narratively or &quot;layers&quot;-speaking) they want their character's class structure to be. The game allows for PCs who are the &quot;simple,&quot; some might say &quot;basic,&quot; archetypes: Fighter, Cleric, Thief/Rogue, Mage/Wizard. Subclass options allow further detail, establishing a narrowing of the class' narrative while simultaneously specifying their features to suit the archetype. Then there are feats and skills, backgrounds and other elements of the character creation process that can further specify/narrow in on a very specific, even to &quot;one-of-a-kind,&quot; character...and, by virtue of the adding of endless available options and new subclass specifics/specialists...your single class could generate a dozen different characters off the same chassis.Par ejemplo...Basic Class: Fighter. Class &quot;thing&quot;: Best at Combat. SIgnature features: some kind of Second WInd/stamina thing to keep you in the fight longer/-est, attack and damage bonuses, more attacks than other classes can have, some kind of situational things: battlefield control, situational interaction bonuses, save bonuses or improvements.Primary Ability: Strength.---&gt; a specialist subclass: The Cavalier [Fighter]. Class thing: Fighter that's highly trained in specific techniques, education, and styles of combat. Signature feature: &quot;Code of Honor&quot; grants special &quot;knightly&quot; flavorful features. Add some feats, backgrounds, thematic archetypes, skill choices and you're:------&gt; Jouster/Dragoon/superior mounted combatant------&gt; Herald/Rallying leader type------&gt; Military commander/tactician------&gt; super-Defender, absorbing damage and taking attacks for his allies------&gt; add some barbarian trappings and dressings and you have some great would-be warlord chieftain who dreams of assembling a warriors' horde to rule their chaotic native lands with Order and virtuous rules.------&gt; Noble [chivalric] Knight sworn to king and country, Samurai, wandering knight errant, honorbound warrior with a personal code/no allegiance to any land or liege, a stable boy with a heart of gold and high ideals of conduct from a benevolent lord in whose keep he grew up, and, and, and...&nbsp;But you only need get into those levels/layers of specificity if you want. It doesn't make your character &quot;better&quot; or give them &quot;more stuff&quot; than someone who is a straight Fighter with no subclass or archetypes or feats or anything. So you have a Fighter Class. And a Cavalier class.All of the rest is...personal choice and options, coloring and fluff...all the fun stuff.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="steeldragons, post: 8455273, member: 92511"] These choices are too limited/limiting. There is no reason it has to be one or the other. Equally, there is no reason "narrow list with narrow choices" or "wide open with tons of choices" need be the only alternatives. You can easily have a list that is "both and"... all things to all people with the limitations simply placed by the player and how "in depth" or "shallow" (mechanically or narratively or "layers"-speaking) they want their character's class structure to be. The game allows for PCs who are the "simple," some might say "basic," archetypes: Fighter, Cleric, Thief/Rogue, Mage/Wizard. Subclass options allow further detail, establishing a narrowing of the class' narrative while simultaneously specifying their features to suit the archetype. Then there are feats and skills, backgrounds and other elements of the character creation process that can further specify/narrow in on a very specific, even to "one-of-a-kind," character...and, by virtue of the adding of endless available options and new subclass specifics/specialists...your single class could generate a dozen different characters off the same chassis. Par ejemplo... Basic Class: Fighter. Class "thing": Best at Combat. SIgnature features: some kind of Second WInd/stamina thing to keep you in the fight longer/-est, attack and damage bonuses, more attacks than other classes can have, some kind of situational things: battlefield control, situational interaction bonuses, save bonuses or improvements. Primary Ability: Strength. ---> a specialist subclass: The Cavalier [Fighter]. Class thing: Fighter that's highly trained in specific techniques, education, and styles of combat. Signature feature: "Code of Honor" grants special "knightly" flavorful features. Add some feats, backgrounds, thematic archetypes, skill choices and you're: ------> Jouster/Dragoon/superior mounted combatant ------> Herald/Rallying leader type ------> Military commander/tactician ------> super-Defender, absorbing damage and taking attacks for his allies ------> add some barbarian trappings and dressings and you have some great would-be warlord chieftain who dreams of assembling a warriors' horde to rule their chaotic native lands with Order and virtuous rules. ------> Noble [chivalric] Knight sworn to king and country, Samurai, wandering knight errant, honorbound warrior with a personal code/no allegiance to any land or liege, a stable boy with a heart of gold and high ideals of conduct from a benevolent lord in whose keep he grew up, and, and, and... But you only need get into those levels/layers of specificity if you want. It doesn't make your character "better" or give them "more stuff" than someone who is a straight Fighter with no subclass or archetypes or feats or anything. So you have a Fighter Class. And a Cavalier class. All of the rest is...personal choice and options, coloring and fluff...all the fun stuff. [/QUOTE]

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