Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Victim" data-source="post: 183625" data-attributes="member: 78">First of all, I don't really like systems that would have extremely powerful casters that take subdual damage/ability for casting really neat spells.  This distaste mostly comes from a Shadowrun game, in which a min-maxed (to an absurd degree - it was most players first time with the game) wizard could pretty much clear rooms with Stunball (?) or Fireball spells, and outshoot most other characters because he had a Locked spell that gave him faster reactions than the best wired reflexes that our group had.  Bleh.  Also, self damaging spells can set up an infinite loop effect, as the caster takes damage from the spells, and then removes more it with another spell than he takes from that spell.  Psions with Body fuel and Trigger power can be broken, right.  I don't really mind preparing spells at the begining of the day.  I think that's 1/2 the fun of spellcasters.  I've seen 2e games in which some people where spontaneously casting somehow.  They simply searched through Spell Compendiums until they found the Perfect Spell (TM).  It slowed the game down, was overpowered, and removed all the strategy from spellcasting.  I like my spellcasters to have to use their smarts or wisdom to use their brains to prepare the most useful spells.  IMHO, the 3e magic system does a fairly decent job.  It's relatively simple, has a pretty wide variety of effects, and is playable.  There are a few things I don't like, however I'll deal with those last.Flashy vs Subtle:  I don't really have a problem here.  Flashy and subtle magics can be equally effective.  Because of the saving throw changes, enchantments can be pretty decent, and evasion puts a nice damperon the loud evocations.  If you less flashy magic, tell the players, and then tell them that lots of the enemies will be rogues, so if they defy convention and try to blast everything, they won't be very effective.  For extra flashy magic, add special effects to normally quiet spells.  There are quite a few few super cool things that can only be done with less flashy magic.  Probably the coolest magical trick I did with my cleric wasn't throwing Fireseeds, Flamestrikes, and a Harm; it was Stone Shaping the floor underneath an enemy so he fell through.Game breaking spells:  Again, I don't have a problem with these spells.  They're fun to toss around, for one thing.  They would probably result in a very different world, but it's an interesting challenge to try and figure out what that world would be like.  Some of the most interesting discussions I've been involved in here have been ones on the interaction of magic with mundane elements of society, like warfare, assassinations, logistics, law enforcement, etc.  However, these kinds of changes certainly aren't going to be everyone's cup of tea.  However, in many cases, it seems that the high level characters that can throw around these magics aren't those person's cups of tea either.  Maybe low levels would be better.  Finally, dropping these spells would have other effects.  Instant death stuff would have to be diminished, etc.  If you change something, consider the results of the change.  BTW, these spells might be better described as World Breaking, as opposed to game breaking, since the mechanic effects, especially in combat, aren't that great.My main problems with the magic system are somewhat related; I don't really like abundance of "kill-ap" spells aren't so much game breaking as spells that define the ways battles are fought, and magic items.I don't really like the incredible amounts of magic items need.  They're needed for game balance, so I'd rather not mess with it without doing lots of work - and I'm pretty lazy, so that's not going to happen.  A 20th wizard with normal gear could probably kill 4 20th level fighters with normal gear and not have a scratch.  However, I'd have rather seen characters without as much spellcasting ability get Super Feats, and some innate powers instead of magic items.  I can see a fighter with a magic sword, armor, and a few other things, but not so much stuff that he needs 50 page book to keep track of them.  Instead of needing See Invis goggles, a ring of protection +5, cloak of resistence +5, etc, I'd have rather seen super feats like Sharpened Senses that lets the character have much better chances of spotting, listening and pinpointing invis creatures, Greater Resistance that takes the place of the cloak, Combat Intuition that gives large insight bonuses to AC.  This way, the power of a character is based more on the character itself, and not the awesome stuff he carries around.  I'd like to maintain pretty much the same effects, but change the flavor text from magic items to natural abilities.  Characters would still have some magic items -  magic items are cool, and because some things that characters would probably need would make no sense as innate powers, like Fly for a human.  Second, there are a number of spells and abilties that aren't really game breaking, but completely change the way people fight.  Flight and the Fly spell are one such ability.  Remember the thread about the 20th level Paladin that got roasted by the dragon a few days about.  At high levels, if you can't fly, you're just a target.  Improved Invisibility is another such spell.  Heal, Mass Heal, Fly, Haste, Mass Haste, Improved Invis, some form of see invis, most of the buffing spells are all good examples.  These spells aren't really optional for most casters; going without them is like bringing a knife to an Artillery duel.  As an example, I'll use our group's battle at the end of the Heart of Nightfang Spire.  Spoilers below!.`````````````````The good guys:  7 people of mostly 10th level, we had one or 2 9th level character and one 11th level wizard.The bad guys: Gulthias the 13th level vampire wizard, and a wight assassin.  Every character involved in the battle had both Fly and Improved Invisibility.  So there's NINE invisible people flying around at the start of the battle.Our group was buffed with Bull's STR, Endurance, and a number of Greater Magic Weapons.  Gulthais took the time to buff himself up as well, but I don't know the exact spells.Only my cleric (via item), our wizard, Gulthias, and the wight can see invisible creatures.Gulthias was hasted, and the wight may have been hasted as well.  If our wizard had lived long enough, he would have cast Mass Haste.That's a whole lot of "must have" magics going around.  If my character didn't have See Invis from a ring, we either would have 1 or ZERO survivors.  The fact that our wizard was dropped like a bad habit by Finger of Death before he could do anything is a good reason for ressurection magic, BTW.  If we didn't have that ring, or if I had used fewer buffs before the battle, we probably would have died, mostly because not enough people could see invis.  If we didn't have enough fly spells, some people could have had to sit out because they never would have reached the battleground.In other words, there are too many spells that you can be completely $%&@@! without.</blockquote>

Verification