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What kind of spells, if any, may be used in sneak attacks?
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<blockquote data-quote="ruleslawyer" data-source="post: 111805" data-attributes="member: 1757"><p>Forrester: How is this rogue getting "a couple of cantrips per round"? Cantrips are spells, and they take a standard action to cast just like any other spell with a 1-action casting time. </p><p></p><p>The rogue's SA damage with <em>ray of frost</em> is 1d3+5d6. If he's lucky enough to encounter a fire creature, that jumps to 2d3+10d6. Compare with a wizard of equal level, who can do 10d8 points of damage to a fire creature with lesser cold orbs even if the creature is not denied its bonus to Dexterity. Or a 10th-level rogue, who can sneak attack for 2d4+10d6 with two daggers against ANY creature not immune to critical hits who is denied its Dexterity bonus and/or who the rogue flanks. I'd say this is pretty balanced. </p><p></p><p>Also don't forget that your Rog9/Wiz1 gives up 6 skill points, BAB, hp, and worst of all, one of the super-cool high-level rogue abilities that kicks in at 10th level (opportunist, improved evasion, slippery mind, etc.). A fair sacrifice for the ability to SA with touch spells.</p><p></p><p>Your fire giant example is a poor one because it serves to demonstrate why a fire giant's CR isn't as high as its insane physical stats would suggest. The designers took into account the fact that a 6th-level wizard (or worse, a sorcerer) with fireball and the energy substitution (cold) feat can do 12d6 damage to multiple fire giants at long range. </p><p></p><p>Honestly, if you have this much of a problem with the ability of a particular class combination to shine in a particular situation, rule-0 it. The arguments you're making simply don't register with me as gospel truth. But that's just my opinion.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ruleslawyer, post: 111805, member: 1757"] Forrester: How is this rogue getting "a couple of cantrips per round"? Cantrips are spells, and they take a standard action to cast just like any other spell with a 1-action casting time. The rogue's SA damage with [i]ray of frost[/i] is 1d3+5d6. If he's lucky enough to encounter a fire creature, that jumps to 2d3+10d6. Compare with a wizard of equal level, who can do 10d8 points of damage to a fire creature with lesser cold orbs even if the creature is not denied its bonus to Dexterity. Or a 10th-level rogue, who can sneak attack for 2d4+10d6 with two daggers against ANY creature not immune to critical hits who is denied its Dexterity bonus and/or who the rogue flanks. I'd say this is pretty balanced. Also don't forget that your Rog9/Wiz1 gives up 6 skill points, BAB, hp, and worst of all, one of the super-cool high-level rogue abilities that kicks in at 10th level (opportunist, improved evasion, slippery mind, etc.). A fair sacrifice for the ability to SA with touch spells. Your fire giant example is a poor one because it serves to demonstrate why a fire giant's CR isn't as high as its insane physical stats would suggest. The designers took into account the fact that a 6th-level wizard (or worse, a sorcerer) with fireball and the energy substitution (cold) feat can do 12d6 damage to multiple fire giants at long range. Honestly, if you have this much of a problem with the ability of a particular class combination to shine in a particular situation, rule-0 it. The arguments you're making simply don't register with me as gospel truth. But that's just my opinion. [/QUOTE]
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