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<blockquote data-quote="Forrester" data-source="post: 111882" data-attributes="member: 1279">Perhaps you've heard of this spell called &quot;Haste&quot; . . . it's quite nifty. And it's how the rogue is getting two Ray of Frosts per round. And is the giant getting a saving throw against those &quot;Cold Orbs&quot; you speak of? I'm guessing he is, if it's a 1st level spell being thrown. And we've already gone through the problems with the rogue sneak-attacking physically. Namely, he has to get UP to the beasty, risk getting attacked, pierce the armor, and he has to make sure he can attack a vital area. And not all DMs are nice enough to say that a monster's ankles count as &quot;vitals&quot;. Finally, at the rate he's killing monsters, I think that the Rogue/Wiz is going to be able to reach 10th level in rogue pretty damn soon. I can't even believe you are making this argument. Yeah, he's got 6 skill points less, one BAB less (sometimes), and has to wait one more level for Opportunist or Slippery Mind. And he gets to do the Ray of Frost trick X times a day AND read from arcane scrolls and use any arcane magical items without having to worry about blowing a Use Magical Device roll.&nbsp; Other Finally -- yes, if you allow a bunch of splatbook stuff, like Energy Substitution and this Cold Orb thing, then the wizards are even more powerful than before. But then again, wizards are by far the most powerful class in the game -- especially with their Haste/Improved Invisibility tricks. Or did you miss that thread? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="Forrester, post: 111882, member: 1279"] Perhaps you've heard of this spell called "Haste" . . . it's quite nifty. And it's how the rogue is getting two Ray of Frosts per round. And is the giant getting a saving throw against those "Cold Orbs" you speak of? I'm guessing he is, if it's a 1st level spell being thrown. And we've already gone through the problems with the rogue sneak-attacking physically. Namely, he has to get UP to the beasty, risk getting attacked, pierce the armor, and he has to make sure he can attack a vital area. And not all DMs are nice enough to say that a monster's ankles count as "vitals". Finally, at the rate he's killing monsters, I think that the Rogue/Wiz is going to be able to reach 10th level in rogue pretty damn soon. I can't even believe you are making this argument. Yeah, he's got 6 skill points less, one BAB less (sometimes), and has to wait one more level for Opportunist or Slippery Mind. And he gets to do the Ray of Frost trick X times a day AND read from arcane scrolls and use any arcane magical items without having to worry about blowing a Use Magical Device roll. Other Finally -- yes, if you allow a bunch of splatbook stuff, like Energy Substitution and this Cold Orb thing, then the wizards are even more powerful than before. But then again, wizards are by far the most powerful class in the game -- especially with their Haste/Improved Invisibility tricks. Or did you miss that thread? :) [/QUOTE]

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