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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ruleslawyer" data-source="post: 113442" data-attributes="member: 1757">I figured that's what you were talking about from the beginning. The reason I didn't bring it up is because all of the counter-arguments I made work equally well under the assumption that haste is being used. Moreover, your Rog9/Wiz1 doesn't have the ability to cast that spell. A Wiz10 does, for example, and he can use the spell to throw two massive-damage cold spells per round. A 10th-level straight rogue who's the recipient of the spell can tumble to flank, SA, and tumble out.Nope. Lesser cold orb is a ranged touch attack, just like ray of frost. It's like MM, but it's elemental damage and requires an RTA. Balanced, IMHO.The Rog9/Wiz1 uses haste, the Rog10 uses it. Moreover, the Rog10 can flank by moving up to the giant. The Rog9/Wiz1 can't flank with a ranged SA. More importantly, since we are assuming the same conditions, each rogue is probably getting SA because the giant is either flatfooted, stunned, etc. or the rogue is invisible. In that case, the Rog10 throws daggers at up to 30', and risks getting attacked as little as the Rog9/Wiz1.Well, believe it; after all, your counterargument relies on the fact that the Rog/Wiz will advance FASTER in level because he kills more things. My argument is that the Rogue is just as good at killing things. If my POV is correct, then your Rog/Wiz will NOT advance faster. QED.I don't doubt that there's lots of benefit to taking a level of wizard. A level of cleric would grant access to domain powers. A level of fighter would grant a bonus feat. A level of ranger would give Ambidexterity and TWF (and if you're REALLY worried about SA, you should check that combo out).  I will point out that the entire "SA damage = elemental damage" rule is from T&B, the same splatbook in which Energy Substitution and the lesser cold orb spell may be found.Finally, note that I didn't even need to use Energy Substitution as an example; I used it to show how a SIXTH-level sorcerer could do more damage to a fire giant. If you happen to have the right spell handy, elemental subtypes can be insanely vulnerable. A 10th-level wiz/sor will use cone of cold and do 20d6 damage to MULTIPLE fire giants in the same time at which the Rog9/Wiz1 can do 2d3+10d6 damage to ONE giant IF the giant is denied his Dex bonus.Sarky, aren't we? Anyway, I do find your tone a bit strong, so I'll avoid continuing the argument. Just house-rule it away and have done.</blockquote>

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