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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kerrick" data-source="post: 3188413" data-attributes="member: 4722">I had a long discussion with UK on the <a href="http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=172769&page=2&pp=40" target="_blank">Grimoire</a> thread about this (look down near the bottom of the page). I proposed a system for epic spells wherein using the same metamagic feat more than once results in a reduced cost for all instances of that feat (e.g., Empower x4 is +4, not +8). I was using Widen and Admixture as the basis of this theory (see below), and UK proved to me that they are the only ones that need to be reduced - not everything else.Let's take hellball as an example... we can all agree that it's around a 15th level spell, right? First, the normal version:Fireball (L3); admixture x3 (+12); widen (+4) = L18. Way too high for this spell.Reduced version: Fireball (L3); admixture x3 (+9); widen (+2) = L14th. Probably a bit low, but a lot better than L18.The thread has a detailed discussion of this, including why Widen should be +2, not +3.</blockquote>