Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
What Level 20 Class Would Win?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Helldritch" data-source="post: 8007475" data-attributes="member: 6855114"><p>Creating a scroll of wish is the same as casting it and with the added cost and all the risks.</p><p>6000 gold is a lot, but not that much for a 20th level character.</p><p>The wizard don't have to rely on a wish to do his run of the mill. The sorcerer does.</p><p>You assume you will win the initiative. You will not. Take it for granted.</p><p>Five very dangerous spells will go your way. You take your reaction to counter a meteor? Ok, the simulacrums will disentagrate you with auto failed saved. At least 3 spells will get you.</p><p></p><p>You talk white room. I talk experience. We did it. We saw it happen. The Diviner beats all the other characters.</p><p></p><p>We had used the following rules.</p><p>No magic items save one magical armor, shield and weapon. All of the +1 variety. Nothing fancy, nothing with attunement. 6 potions were allowed. No scrolls no miscelaneous.</p><p>The same build must be used for all battles. No change between fights.</p><p>Anything brought up must be the run of the mill for said character. If said character would do it in an adventure, he can be assumed to have it (or have it prepared).</p><p></p><p>In all the tests, which took 2 weeks, 3 sessions per week, 8 hours long. The diviner lost one battle only once, to a wizard. All matches were 3 battles of 5 battles (or was it 2 out of 3? It's been a long while). The diviner won every single match straight up with consecutive wins.</p><p></p><p>Granted we were not too familiar with 5ed as we were doing this within the first week it got out. But a lot of my players have 30+ years of experience in D&D of various editions and they are no small players. The player playing the Diviner was not even my "best" tactical player. This is where we saw the power of a diviner. Do your white room all you want. I know what I saw.</p><p></p><p>Edit: Ho and your build had to be able to handle 5 battles with Encounter DC 20 (solo character). One battle was with a legendary opponent, one with two enemies, three with 4+ enemies.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Helldritch, post: 8007475, member: 6855114"] Creating a scroll of wish is the same as casting it and with the added cost and all the risks. 6000 gold is a lot, but not that much for a 20th level character. The wizard don't have to rely on a wish to do his run of the mill. The sorcerer does. You assume you will win the initiative. You will not. Take it for granted. Five very dangerous spells will go your way. You take your reaction to counter a meteor? Ok, the simulacrums will disentagrate you with auto failed saved. At least 3 spells will get you. You talk white room. I talk experience. We did it. We saw it happen. The Diviner beats all the other characters. We had used the following rules. No magic items save one magical armor, shield and weapon. All of the +1 variety. Nothing fancy, nothing with attunement. 6 potions were allowed. No scrolls no miscelaneous. The same build must be used for all battles. No change between fights. Anything brought up must be the run of the mill for said character. If said character would do it in an adventure, he can be assumed to have it (or have it prepared). In all the tests, which took 2 weeks, 3 sessions per week, 8 hours long. The diviner lost one battle only once, to a wizard. All matches were 3 battles of 5 battles (or was it 2 out of 3? It's been a long while). The diviner won every single match straight up with consecutive wins. Granted we were not too familiar with 5ed as we were doing this within the first week it got out. But a lot of my players have 30+ years of experience in D&D of various editions and they are no small players. The player playing the Diviner was not even my "best" tactical player. This is where we saw the power of a diviner. Do your white room all you want. I know what I saw. Edit: Ho and your build had to be able to handle 5 battles with Encounter DC 20 (solo character). One battle was with a legendary opponent, one with two enemies, three with 4+ enemies. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
What Level 20 Class Would Win?
Top