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<blockquote data-quote="ClaytonCross" data-source="post: 8007730" data-attributes="member: 6880599">I was not aware of the Chronurgist as it is a newer option. Convergent Future + feeblemind is basically an I win button vs non-melee classes unless the target has counterspell…. well. Ok then I see why wizards are winning. I am a little surprised Wizards allowed an ability that completely removes any chance of a save. I guess a Divination wizard has a chance at a similar effect with Portent depending on if they get a really low roll. Melee classes, including moon druids and paladins in this case, end up playing a game of keep away which they can't win versus an opponent with hold person, blink, misty step, and thunder step... Until the target gets low enough for a finger of death. In that case Artificer makes a good augment for second place but due to Convergent Future and maybe Portant I concede wizards can break most classes out the gate and there is nothing they can do about it if the wizard goes first in initiative. Of the classes with counter spell only the Bard and Warlock are the only ones with feeblemind to return the favor and for sure the same two subclasses have advantage on them. If sorcerers had feeblemind with meta magic heightened spell they could give wizards a sudden death run for there money but they don't and still all of these classes are Charisma based making intelligence saves while wizards are intelligent based with intelligence save proficiency which out weighs disadvantage (even if they take resilient intelligence, it is still their secondary stat at best). They could both be a Gnome so that is a net zero. Then you add to that they could use the same abilities to prevent from failing as they could causing the opponent to fail...well crap... I would like to change my answer.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="ClaytonCross, post: 8007730, member: 6880599"] [B]I was not aware of the Chronurgist as it is a newer option[/B]. Convergent Future + feeblemind is basically an I win button vs non-melee classes unless the target has counterspell…. well. Ok then I see why wizards are winning. I am a little surprised Wizards allowed an ability that completely removes any chance of a save. I guess a Divination wizard has a chance at a similar effect with Portent depending on if they get a really low roll. Melee classes, including moon druids and paladins in this case, end up playing a game of keep away which they can't win versus an opponent with hold person, blink, misty step, and thunder step... Until the target gets low enough for a finger of death. In that case Artificer makes a good augment for second place but due to Convergent Future and maybe Portant I concede wizards can break most classes out the gate and there is nothing they can do about it if the wizard goes first in initiative. Of the classes with counter spell only the Bard and Warlock are the only ones with feeblemind to return the favor and for sure the same two subclasses have advantage on them. If sorcerers had feeblemind with meta magic heightened spell they could give wizards a sudden death run for there money but they don't and still all of these classes are Charisma based making intelligence saves while wizards are intelligent based with intelligence save proficiency which out weighs disadvantage (even if they take resilient intelligence, it is still their secondary stat at best). They could both be a Gnome so that is a net zero. Then you add to that they could use the same abilities to prevent from failing as they could causing the opponent to fail... well crap... I would like to change my answer. [/QUOTE]

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