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<blockquote data-quote="ClaytonCross" data-source="post: 8007890" data-attributes="member: 6880599"><p>I want to agree with you but wizards get the feeblemind spell and sorcerers don't. That means save or die for the sorcerer which automatically leans it to wizards. If even one sorcerer subclass had feeblemind as a spell option, or if your fighting level 14 and lower then yes the sorcerer is very dangerous. That is not however, the OPs setup and being able to attempt it twice once with the level 8 spell slot and once with the level 9 spell slot on top of having 2 subclasses that can make the save an automatic failure... means sorcerers lose. Yes there is counter spell but since they can't fail that means sorcerer needs to hold their level 8 and 9 spell slots for counter spell instead of fighting with them or they leave the fight open to giving the wizard to attempts to end the fight with one roll. These means they are still fighting with one hand tied behind their back.</p></blockquote><p></p>

[QUOTE="ClaytonCross, post: 8007890, member: 6880599"] I want to agree with you but wizards get the feeblemind spell and sorcerers don't. That means save or die for the sorcerer which automatically leans it to wizards. If even one sorcerer subclass had feeblemind as a spell option, or if your fighting level 14 and lower then yes the sorcerer is very dangerous. That is not however, the OPs setup and being able to attempt it twice once with the level 8 spell slot and once with the level 9 spell slot on top of having 2 subclasses that can make the save an automatic failure... means sorcerers lose. Yes there is counter spell but since they can't fail that means sorcerer needs to hold their level 8 and 9 spell slots for counter spell instead of fighting with them or they leave the fight open to giving the wizard to attempts to end the fight with one roll. These means they are still fighting with one hand tied behind their back. [/QUOTE]

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