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Message: <blockquote data-quote="NotAYakk" data-source="post: 8007953" data-attributes="member: 72555">Subtle counterspell means any spell cast within 60 feet of a sorcerer has to be assumed not to work, unless you can use a 9th level slot and force the sorcerer to use their 9th level first.You cannot counter their counterspell, the sorcerer burns 1 metamagic to make it componentless, and componentless spells cannot be countered.The sorcerer can either do the same for her own spells, or counterspell your counterspell, so their spells get through.If you are more than 60' but less than 120', the sorcerer can distant counterspell; again, you cannot counter it, it is out of range.So you have to be at least 125' away from a sorcerer to cast a spell on them successfully.  Or, bait the sorcerer with a cantrip, then bonus action spell.  Or bait with a bonus action spell, then cantrip.  Or action surge (EK only).Once at range, the sorcerer is free to kite.  Distant Spell means they outrange the other caster for the most part.Invisibility/truesight brings the fight back down to close range (at the cost of concentration), where the sorcerer again can counter at least your initial actions.The Diviners 3d20 are highly useful.  They can probably win initiative, and make one or two spells hit/miss.  Maybe with some good counterspell bluffing they can get some high level slots through and win, while defending using their 3d20 making the sorcerers first offensive moves fail.</blockquote>

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