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What Level is the Wizard vs. the Fighter?
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<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 8539175" data-attributes="member: 6790260"><p>Calling it a "pity party" is rather more nasty than necessary for the conversation, don't you think? That doesn't seem to be conducive to actually getting people on board with your position.</p><p></p><p>Further, as noted in my previous post, I did everything I could to <em>avoid</em> the "quantum spellbook" problem, taking up much less than half of the minimum spells known for a 13th level Wizard and precisely a third of their spells prepared. Unlike what TheSword implied with their response, I wasn't expecting these things to be used in consecutive initial rounds of a combat, because yes, that would be Pretty Dumb. My point was that they're excellent defensive choices, for a Wizard actually concerned with "keeping up" with Fighters in terms of defenses. Plus, all the spells I suggested are <em>good spells</em>, ones recommended by guides (<em>shield, misty step, fly</em>, etc.) <em>Fly</em> and <em>misty step</em> even have non-combat utility.</p><p></p><p>The designers said repeatedly during the playtest of 5e that magic items were supposed to be fully optional, something that many--including myself--balked at over the years. And people continued to insist that it was true, that the DM did not ever need to give out magic items <em>ever</em>, for <em>any</em> reason, no matter what, <em>period</em>. Now, again, perhaps that belief is mistaken. But it's more than a little disingenuous to argue that the text <em>truly</em> supports the idea that magic items were always intended to be present for most if not all groups, when the text <em>explicitly</em> says that isn't the case, as <em>you yourself</em> quoted with the screenshot of that page from Xanathar's.</p><p></p><p>Again: it is entirely possible that the developers are simply <em>wrong</em> to say that, or that the text contradicts itself, or that the statement is an Obi-Wan-style truth "from a certain point of view," etc. You can, quite easily, argue any of those things and probably more that I'm not considering. But it is explicit, in the text and from the designers' lips, that magic items were <em>intended</em> to be optional, without any explicit caveats or reservations. To pretend that the text literally, actually claims otherwise is to blatantly ignore the actual words on the page. Whether those actual words are <em>correct</em> is absolutely a subject of (furious!) debate, but they're there, and to pretend like they aren't is playing sillybuggers.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 8539175, member: 6790260"] Calling it a "pity party" is rather more nasty than necessary for the conversation, don't you think? That doesn't seem to be conducive to actually getting people on board with your position. Further, as noted in my previous post, I did everything I could to [I]avoid[/I] the "quantum spellbook" problem, taking up much less than half of the minimum spells known for a 13th level Wizard and precisely a third of their spells prepared. Unlike what TheSword implied with their response, I wasn't expecting these things to be used in consecutive initial rounds of a combat, because yes, that would be Pretty Dumb. My point was that they're excellent defensive choices, for a Wizard actually concerned with "keeping up" with Fighters in terms of defenses. Plus, all the spells I suggested are [I]good spells[/I], ones recommended by guides ([I]shield, misty step, fly[/I], etc.) [I]Fly[/I] and [I]misty step[/I] even have non-combat utility. The designers said repeatedly during the playtest of 5e that magic items were supposed to be fully optional, something that many--including myself--balked at over the years. And people continued to insist that it was true, that the DM did not ever need to give out magic items [I]ever[/I], for [I]any[/I] reason, no matter what, [I]period[/I]. Now, again, perhaps that belief is mistaken. But it's more than a little disingenuous to argue that the text [I]truly[/I] supports the idea that magic items were always intended to be present for most if not all groups, when the text [I]explicitly[/I] says that isn't the case, as [I]you yourself[/I] quoted with the screenshot of that page from Xanathar's. Again: it is entirely possible that the developers are simply [I]wrong[/I] to say that, or that the text contradicts itself, or that the statement is an Obi-Wan-style truth "from a certain point of view," etc. You can, quite easily, argue any of those things and probably more that I'm not considering. But it is explicit, in the text and from the designers' lips, that magic items were [I]intended[/I] to be optional, without any explicit caveats or reservations. To pretend that the text literally, actually claims otherwise is to blatantly ignore the actual words on the page. Whether those actual words are [I]correct[/I] is absolutely a subject of (furious!) debate, but they're there, and to pretend like they aren't is playing sillybuggers. [/QUOTE]
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