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<blockquote data-quote="Bacon Bits" data-source="post: 8539386" data-attributes="member: 6777737">Eh, this is misleading, and why white box analysis isn't great.Fireball is limited to two per day at 5th in an edition that tells DMs to plan for 6-8 encounters per day. It also is indiscriminate, hitting allies and enemies. That all but requires winning initiative and a cooperative encounter design. Even if you are able to avoid hitting allies, you're unlikely to hit more than 3-5 targets. Even the damage, 8d6 (28), is not that spectacular. A fighter of 5th level can pretty easily be doing 1d8+5 (9.5) or 2d6+3 (10) twice a turn. The fighter catches up on single target damage after two rounds (less with an action surge), and single target damage in a system where you're just as effective at max hp as 1 hp is pretty important..There's also basically no way in the game to improve fireball except higher spell levels, a higher DC, or the damage resistance feat, while fighters can improve damage and hit rate with higher ability scores, feats that significantly increase damage or add rider effects, class abilities, and magic items and weapons. 5e's track has moved it away from magic items which significantly affects the fighter more than other classes, but they do still exist.The trouble is that fireball is not the only thing that wizards can do.I pegged it thusly:A level 1 Fighter is greater than a level 1 Wizard. At level 1, you're ruled by hp and AC, and Fighters have that.A level 10 Fighter is about equal to a level 7 Wizard (but a level 11 Fighter is about a level 9 Wizard; Fighter 11 is a power spike).A level 20 Fighter is about equal to a level 11-12 Wizard. Level 7+ spells are just dumb, and Fighter peaks at level 11-12.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Bacon Bits, post: 8539386, member: 6777737"] Eh, this is misleading, and why white box analysis isn't great. Fireball is limited to two per day at 5th in an edition that tells DMs to plan for 6-8 encounters per day. It also is indiscriminate, hitting allies and enemies. That all but requires winning initiative and a cooperative encounter design. Even if you are able to avoid hitting allies, you're unlikely to hit more than 3-5 targets. Even the damage, 8d6 (28), is not [I]that[/I] spectacular. A fighter of 5th level can pretty easily be doing 1d8+5 (9.5) or 2d6+3 (10) twice a turn. The fighter catches up on single target damage after two rounds (less with an action surge), and single target damage in a system where you're just as effective at max hp as 1 hp is pretty important.. There's also basically no way in the game to improve fireball except higher spell levels, a higher DC, or the damage resistance feat, while fighters can improve damage and hit rate with higher ability scores, feats that significantly increase damage or add rider effects, class abilities, and magic items and weapons. 5e's track has moved it away from magic items which significantly affects the fighter more than other classes, but they do still exist. The trouble is that fireball is not the only thing that wizards can do. I pegged it thusly: A level 1 Fighter is greater than a level 1 Wizard. At level 1, you're ruled by hp and AC, and Fighters have that. A level 10 Fighter is about equal to a level 7 Wizard (but a level 11 Fighter is about a level 9 Wizard; Fighter 11 is a power spike). A level 20 Fighter is about equal to a level 11-12 Wizard. Level 7+ spells are just dumb, and Fighter peaks at level 11-12. [/QUOTE]

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