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<blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 8539452" data-attributes="member: 93670">There is a breakdown of fighter damage with a couple different weapons <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/spellcasters-and-balance-in-5e-a-poll.680650/post-8303342" target="_blank">here in this post</a> &amp; there's an excessive spreadsheet <a href="https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BGyYy9W5Vf9xeNyIrTrJog9YdkJOTImyhmklvdKKMtI/edit?usp=sharing" target="_blank">here</a>.&nbsp; The extra ASI/Feats at 6 &amp; 14 stacking on each attack makes a big difference beyond 11-12. 20 strength+gwm+sentinel &amp; those plus something likee heavy armor master/shield master/sharpshooter/etcIt's hard to assess a baseline of 3.5 style scroll/looted spellbook availability alongside an expectation of no feats &amp; no magic weapons as the norm&nbsp; as anything reasonable. It's great that you &quot;tried&quot; to avoid a quantum spellbook, but you only managed to do that with spell scroll &amp; maybe spellbook availability not reflected by the o5e books or hardcover adventures other than TYP.&nbsp; Taken a step further I could point out how you are the only one on the poor fighter train who has even acknowledged&nbsp; in a roundabout way that the comparison should not include a quantum spellbook rather than dismissing or scorning the very idea. It's great that people want to think &quot;feats &amp; magic items are optional&quot; is the same as &quot;feats &amp; magic items being available is very much not the norm outside low levels where they have not yet been obtained&quot;, but they are not the same.&nbsp; As someone else mentioned games that are going for that no magic items conan style feel are likely expected to be fighting more orcs bandits &amp; owlbears than demons dragons &amp; golems... A GM is welcome to mix that up in their conan inspired game but doing so requires them to make some changes.&nbsp; Unfortunately attempts to placate the idea that no magic items is somehow common despite everything in the rules discouraging that also borks balance the other way around but making adjustments to twist the needle back the other way in correction as levels advance is much more difficult than changing something like resist nonmagical b/p/s or dropping ac from probably hit 60%+ to practically guaranteed hit.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="tetrasodium, post: 8539452, member: 93670"] There is a breakdown of fighter damage with a couple different weapons [URL='https://www.enworld.org/threads/spellcasters-and-balance-in-5e-a-poll.680650/post-8303342']here in this post[/URL] & there's an excessive spreadsheet [URL='https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BGyYy9W5Vf9xeNyIrTrJog9YdkJOTImyhmklvdKKMtI/edit?usp=sharing']here[/URL]. The extra ASI/Feats at 6 & 14 stacking on each attack makes a big difference beyond 11-12. 20 strength+gwm+sentinel & those plus something likee heavy armor master/shield master/sharpshooter/etc It's hard to assess a baseline of 3.5 style scroll/looted spellbook availability alongside an expectation of no feats & no magic weapons as the norm as anything reasonable. It's great that you "tried" to avoid a quantum spellbook, but you only managed to do that with spell scroll & maybe spellbook availability not reflected by the o5e books or hardcover adventures other than TYP. Taken a step further I could point out how you are the only one on the poor fighter train who has even acknowledged in a roundabout way that the comparison should [I]not[/I] include a quantum spellbook rather than dismissing or scorning the very idea. It's great that people want to think "feats & magic items are optional" is the same as "feats & magic items being available is very much not the norm outside low levels where they have not yet been obtained", but they are not the same. As someone else mentioned games that are going for that no magic items conan style feel are likely expected to be fighting more orcs bandits & owlbears than demons dragons & golems... A GM is welcome to mix that up in their conan inspired game but doing so requires them to make some changes. Unfortunately attempts to placate the idea that no magic items is somehow common despite everything in the rules discouraging that also borks balance the other way around but making adjustments to twist the needle back the other way in correction as levels advance is much more difficult than changing something like resist nonmagical b/p/s or dropping ac from probably hit 60%+ to practically guaranteed hit. [/QUOTE]

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