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<blockquote data-quote="Kabluey" data-source="post: 5950716" data-attributes="member: 6695703">I guess I have a slightly different take on the question.&nbsp; It shouldn't be, &quot;What makes a class?&quot;, but rather, &quot;What makes a theme?&quot;&nbsp; In other words, I think when considering it you should start with thinking of a concept as a theme, and then move it to a separate class when it no longer fits in a theme.&nbsp; Classes and themes are mechanical distinctions, not conceptual ones.&nbsp; That doesn't mean I want as few classes as possible, though.&nbsp; I actually think more classes is better than fewer, because that increases the number of class/theme combos, but too many classes or classes without any real distinctions aren't helpful either.When deciding if a theme should be a class, you have to remember that themes are just collections of feats.&nbsp; So you have to think about all the abilities you want in your concept.&nbsp; If one or more of them don't fit as a feat, then it's a class.&nbsp; For example, if you wanted to build a paladin, you'd start as a theme.&nbsp; But one of the abilities of paladin is to cast divine spells.&nbsp; I wouldn't want a feat that allows this, because then anyone can take it, so at that point I'd say it's a class.&nbsp; Also I tend to think things that improve automatically with levels doesn't fit a feat, so any ability that required this would force me to make it a class rather than a theme.On the question of whether all themes should be available to all classes, again I think my take is a little bit different than others.&nbsp; I actually think they should be universally available - they just don't have to be universally optimal.&nbsp; A fighter could take an illusionist theme, for example, but it might not really help him much.&nbsp; But I'm okay with letting players make sub-optimal builds if they want, because sometimes those can be fun to play too.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Kabluey, post: 5950716, member: 6695703"] I guess I have a slightly different take on the question. It shouldn't be, "What makes a class?", but rather, "What makes a theme?" In other words, I think when considering it you should start with thinking of a concept as a theme, and then move it to a separate class when it no longer fits in a theme. Classes and themes are mechanical distinctions, not conceptual ones. That doesn't mean I want as few classes as possible, though. I actually think more classes is better than fewer, because that increases the number of class/theme combos, but too many classes or classes without any real distinctions aren't helpful either. When deciding if a theme should be a class, you have to remember that themes are just collections of feats. So you have to think about all the abilities you want in your concept. If one or more of them don't fit as a feat, then it's a class. For example, if you wanted to build a paladin, you'd start as a theme. But one of the abilities of paladin is to cast divine spells. I wouldn't want a feat that allows this, because then anyone can take it, so at that point I'd say it's a class. Also I tend to think things that improve automatically with levels doesn't fit a feat, so any ability that required this would force me to make it a class rather than a theme. On the question of whether all themes should be available to all classes, again I think my take is a little bit different than others. I actually think they should be universally available - they just don't have to be universally optimal. A fighter could take an illusionist theme, for example, but it might not really help him much. But I'm okay with letting players make sub-optimal builds if they want, because sometimes those can be fun to play too. [/QUOTE]

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