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<blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 7114934" data-attributes="member: 12731">This is the fallacy that is core to the argument. For you &quot;full caster&quot; means simply &quot;9th level spells&quot;. For others &quot;full caster&quot; means someone that can take on the role of the go-to guy, the magical bag of tricks that solve the party's problems and challenges in a wide variety of circumstances. The Warlock generally isn't that guy. He doesn't have the spell list of a Wizard and he certainly doesn't have the freedom of choice either. He does get to make selections, but they are much more locked down. To people thinking about high-level adventures with high-level challenges, people like Warlocks and Bards simply does not reach the same strata as does Wizards or Clerics.This doesn't have to be a problem, by the way. If nobody expects the Warlock to pull out an Ethereal Jaunt or Plane Shift one day, and Dimensional Anchor, Passwall or Forcecage the next, just like they don't expect the Fighter to, there is no issue.That is what I mean when I say playing a Warlock is only getting better and more liberating, the more spellcasters the group already contains. Not only does your average martial skills look better in comparison, you are often free to pick and use spells as you please, as opposed to the needs of the party.On the other hand, a group of four martials looking for their first spellcaster will be much better served by a Wizard or Cleric.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="CapnZapp, post: 7114934, member: 12731"] This is the fallacy that is core to the argument. For you "full caster" means simply "9th level spells". For others "full caster" means someone that can take on the role of the go-to guy, the magical bag of tricks that solve the party's problems and challenges in a wide variety of circumstances. The Warlock generally isn't that guy. He doesn't have the spell list of a Wizard and he certainly doesn't have the freedom of choice either. He does get to make selections, but they are much more locked down. To people thinking about high-level adventures with high-level challenges, people like Warlocks and Bards simply does not reach the same strata as does Wizards or Clerics. This doesn't have to be a problem, by the way. If nobody expects the Warlock to pull out an Ethereal Jaunt or Plane Shift one day, and Dimensional Anchor, Passwall or Forcecage the next, just like they don't expect the Fighter to, there is no issue. That is what I mean when I say playing a Warlock is only getting better and more liberating, the more spellcasters the group already contains. Not only does your average martial skills look better in comparison, you are often free to pick and use spells as you please, as opposed to the needs of the party. On the other hand, a group of four martials looking for their first spellcaster will be much better served by a Wizard or Cleric. [/QUOTE]

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