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<blockquote data-quote="Artoomis" data-source="post: 53237" data-attributes="member: 111">The FRCS example actually works for me, but more explanation would help.Imagine that the paladin is fooled by the demon - okay, now that doesn't, by itself, cause the paladin to fall.&nbsp; But the demon continues to manipulate tha paladin under the guise of reforming its behavoir - eventually, he gets the paladin to do something evil - BANG, fallen paladin.Of course, a paladin is both lawful and good.I think it's also possible to fall for taking the law into your own hands without proper cause.&nbsp; The Galahad example can be looked at in this light - let's say the whole town detects as evil (slight evil, maybe, but evil nonetheless).&nbsp; Not attempting to get the town to see the error of their ways and make up for it within the law would have Galahad fall from grace - he took the law into his own hands and passed judgement.The paladin's job is NOT to pass judgement on everyone he meets - that's okay in the lawless wilderness, but not in civilized areas.&nbsp; In civilized areas he needs to work within the law for the good - not outside the law.&nbsp; That's for Rangers and the like.Life is MUCH harder for a paladin in civilized areas where he cannot simply impose his own &quot;proper&quot; view on everyone else.&nbsp; It's also important to remember that's its really not too hard to atone for your sins as a paladin - simply go to your church and do your penance (which might be considerable, or might just be a few prayers).&nbsp; Pretty much everything is forgivable, if the paladin genuinely seeks forgiveness.&nbsp; For course, doing an act knowing you can get forgiveness later will involve a rather lengthy and involved atonement to ensure it doesn't happen again.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Artoomis, post: 53237, member: 111"] The FRCS example actually works for me, but more explanation would help. Imagine that the paladin is fooled by the demon - okay, now that doesn't, by itself, cause the paladin to fall. But the demon continues to manipulate tha paladin under the guise of reforming its behavoir - eventually, he gets the paladin to do something evil - BANG, fallen paladin. Of course, a paladin is [b]both[/b] lawful [b]and[/b] good. I think it's also possible to fall for taking the law into your own hands without proper cause. The Galahad example can be looked at in this light - let's say the whole town detects as evil (slight evil, maybe, but evil nonetheless). Not attempting to get the town to see the error of their ways and make up for it within the law would have Galahad fall from grace - he took the law into his own hands and passed judgement. The paladin's job is NOT to pass judgement on everyone he meets - that's okay in the lawless wilderness, but not in civilized areas. In civilized areas he needs to work within the law for the good - not outside the law. That's for Rangers and the like. Life is MUCH harder for a paladin in civilized areas where he cannot simply impose his own "proper" view on everyone else. It's also important to remember that's its really not too hard to atone for your sins as a paladin - simply go to your church and do your penance (which might be considerable, or might just be a few prayers). Pretty much everything is forgivable, if the paladin [b]genuinely[/b] seeks forgiveness. For course, doing an act knowing you can get forgiveness later will involve a rather lengthy and involved atonement to ensure it doesn't happen again. [/QUOTE]

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