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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 9692842" data-attributes="member: 18">I think the issue with VtM 1E and 2E is that they were never primarily horror games. Particularly not 2E.It'd be a re-writing of history to say they were - a common one, and indeed one a later White Wolf engaged in, but still. And I'm not just saying that, you can open up VtM 2E and go through it - I did a few weeks ago. Horror is absolutely not a priority, it's just in the mix. In fact, what's very clear from the text is that the favoured mode of play, the favoured focus of the VtM writers and designers was essentially "intrigue", i.e. vampire politics and machinations and power struggles (including with other supernaturals, and in maintaining the Masquerade). Most of the suggested campaign conflicts are about that. The chapter on the styles of play (which basically break down to adventure, intrigue and personal horror) strongly suggests that VtM is strongest at intrigue, and that it is weakest at personal stuff, and requires an exceptional DM and players (it doesn't call them that, they're "Mean Streets", "Illuminati" and "Bourbon Street" because it was the 1990s and style matters man!).So I think it's pretty forgivable that a lot of people played VtM that way, because really, how many people are interested in personal horror and body horror as a theme for multiplayer RPG sessions? It's not a theme that even works well in that context - 1 on 1 or blueblooking/journalling/chatrooms are much better venues for that kind of horror. Virtually every functional, in-person VtM group I came across was:A) Trenchcoats and katanasB) Vampire politics/intrigue focused (LARPs almost always were)C) Horny as hell RP that was ostensibly politics/intrigue focused (Anne Rice style)Which is part of why when the appropriately named "Vampire: The Masquerade Revised" (it sure was revising something...) came out (after Rein*Hagen et al left), and basically tried to kill off both "Trenchcoats and katanas"-style play and "Anne Rice"-style play (despite the latter being explicitly a massive influence on VtM 1/2E), in the name of promoting personal horror and body horror above all else, even revising basic vampire lore to do so, it wasn't very persuasive (and was also kind of anti-zeitgeist rather than surfing the zeitgeist).The only times I saw body horror/personal horror work in a VtM situation were online RP in forums and chatrooms. I've never seen it work in a sustained way in person. I'm not saying it can't or never did - but I agree with VtM 2E's assessment that it would take an exceptional group and Storyteller to manage that, especially for a sustained campaign, not a few sessions likely ending in the Final Death of the vampires involved.Sorry, going a bit off topic but I think it's important to note VtM wasn't really a horror game - it was a gothic-punk game, with a focus on intrigue. On no level was it well setup for horror - not mechanically, not in terms of how it was written and presented, not in terms of supplements (Revised did better supplement-wise, for sure, but 1E and 2E? Nah), and not in terms of what most players were actually interested in.Of course a lot of RPGs experience this kind of discontinuity, drift, and attempted changes of direction with new editions.</blockquote>

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