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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Theory of Games" data-source="post: 9733898" data-attributes="member: 7042201">Yeah but STUN results incapacitate the threat just the same, but without the need for CPR <img class="smilie smilie--emoji" alt="😁" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f601.png" title="Beaming face with smiling eyes    :grin:" data-shortname=":grin:" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" /> I'm not certain which edition you used, but in Advanced MSH:"Death: Almost all heroes have a code against killing, and this is reflected by the fact that if a hero kills an opponent, or through his actions allows a person to die, all Karma for the character is reduced to 0. Karma that has been spent for advancement, building things, or influencing die rolls previous to the death is unaffected, but with the death, all current Karma is reduced to 0. New Karma may be earned from this point, but the Karma is lost, even if the character slain is later returned to life. Accidental deaths and deaths resulting from the hero not being in control of his actions do not mitigate this effect." - MSH Advanced Players Handbook, pg. 35I liked this aspect of the system because it created a systematic penalty for unheroic behavior. But, the great thing about these games is we can play them however we like, ultimately<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f44d.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt="(y)" title="Thumbs up    (y)"  data-smilie="22"data-shortname="(y)" />But it wasn't a trade-off; the defensive actions were allowed in addition to offensive actions as part of the initiative sequence. It's in the Advanced set (Players Handbook, pg. 14) <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f44d.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt="(y)" title="Thumbs up    (y)"  data-smilie="22"data-shortname="(y)" /> Again, YMMV. IME Karma gave PCs extensive capability (mainly for Power Stunts, which were a very effective way of overcoming near impossible challenges).We also can't assume points to make points: if someone is discussing systems, we can't assume that person is automatically discussing playstyles. Two different discussions (that often get confused and conflated).You can assume that, but no. You pointed out I used "most" then went on to ignore what "most" means <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f644.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":rolleyes:" title="Roll eyes    :rolleyes:"  data-smilie="11"data-shortname=":rolleyes:" /> I think we can agree that we don't share the same viewpoint here<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f44d.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt="(y)" title="Thumbs up    (y)"  data-smilie="22"data-shortname="(y)" /></blockquote>

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