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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Xeviat" data-source="post: 6816611" data-attributes="member: 57494">I came into this subforum to make almost this very same post. Back in 4E, I was one of those who was constantly arguing that the Ranger should have been a Primal class and that it lost a lot of it's identity by becoming a martial class. I would argue that the Ranger had to be magical in a D&D world, because magic is how a lot of those mysterious little knacks of woodsmen are translated into the D&D world. I've never seen anyone demand a spell-less Paladin, even though crusaders in the real world didn't have magic.Somehow, I never noticed that the same logic could be applied to the Bard and the Warlord. In a non-magical setting, I can very much see the need for a Warlord, but I'd also want to see a spell-less Ranger in such a setting.What can a Warlord do that a Valor Bard with some new spells couldn't do? A cantrip could be made to grant attacks or movement to allies. I sat down and made a level 20 bard, choosing spells that could be justified as not overtly magical, and it can easily be done. You get inspiration for allies, you get healing for allies, you get some control on enemies, and you get to swing a weapon around while you do it. A bit of intelligence support would be nice, but that could be done with a new Bard archetype for a "lead from the rear" type if Lore Bard isn't enough for you.</blockquote>