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Message: <blockquote data-quote="nnms" data-source="post: 6262195" data-attributes="member: 83293">That's a good insight.There's probably a technique that can be used to ensure these skill usages don't replace description and roleplay in favour of bypassing play.One technique, which also fits the list of what is common among OSR feeling games, is that the referee is the one who calls for rolls.  While Tunnels & Trolls did have players able to call for some rolls, largely even there those player called rolls were done in response to other rolls previously called for by the referee.  Generally though, a roll is only valid or even relevant if it's called for by the GM.  So a player can't just say "I convince him to join my side:  Diplmoacy roll, 23" and bypass the conversation or dialogue.Perhaps I'm bitter and jaded, but I've noticed I've had much, much more success when I've stopped seeing it as my job to engage the players.  I describe my heart out and do my best to only deal with things in normal language and not game terms.  I think one of the advantage to the earlier games in RPG history is the ability to stick with normal language and have it make sense.Perhaps that's another common element of the first games in RPGing history?  That they are intimately connected with real language and not jargon or game terms.  That you can describe what characters (be they PC or NPC) are doing without referring to rules terms unless you want to.Part of the problem is that the setting authority traditionally lies with the GM, so what can the player do but roll when asked to and ask what they know?  Unless they happen to really know the setting and can use that to supply their own answers, it's often inappropriate for the player, rather than the GM to supply answers to something like a setting history roll.One way to approach this is to cut out the roll and just ask the GM to take the fact that your character is historically educated into consideration and just supply any info that the character would know.  This should also be pointed out to be an opportunity for the GM to give information that the players should have.  People often think they have to really hide clues and mysteries and information, but the truth is that you need to really shove it down player's throats in order for them to really get that it is important.Another alternative is to demand note-taking.  It's not old school pe se, but it is a practice that happened in the early days of RPGs.  If something is going to be relevant from a historical or knowledge perspective, it gets mentioned in the description and the players can either not pay attention or they can jot notes and details down so they can use it later.Perhaps a paragraph or section explicitly about note taking or providing useful details during exploration.  For example, a bass-relief of a snake being killed by a jaguar might be useful to remember when it comes time to figuring out the traditional relations between Jaguar Clan and Snake Clan barbarians.</blockquote>

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