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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 9318881" data-attributes="member: 87792">This to me is not as load bearing a foundation as I think you think it is. Essentially you seem to be saying that two things are in direct opposition in a near zero sum game when they are merely in conflict. Weight and speed may be in conflict but this doesn't make a hot air balloon faster than a jet fighter.And here is where it shows. Mechanistic is not the opposite of fiction based. This isn't a scale, it is two separate numbers in conflict but not contradiction. And continuity and callbacks are bedrocks of actual stories. Adding mechanics makes it easier to have continuity and callbacks/Indeed. I've made several comments about Dungeon World not being a very good PBTA game; for one example its hard coded class structure reminiscent more of D&amp;D than other PbtA games means that many avenues of character growth and large twists that Apocalypse World and Monsterhearts encourage are simply not available. Thirsty Sword Lesbians for what it's worth feels to me like a PBTA &quot;Greatest hits album&quot;; it makes no actively bad choices but there's nowhere it makes me say &quot;wow!&quot; or really nails its theme the way e.g. Monsterhearts (to which it owes a lot) does.I'm going to disagree with what I believe to be your fundamental argument here. Pure Freeform isn't even close a level 9 or 10. Bone might be weight that doesn't add power - but freeform without structure is a beached jellyfish. It's about a four. When you start to add some structure and implicit mechanics like the &quot;yes and&quot; structure of Improv then you're rising to about a six or seven and a land-based octopus. And you can easily add a point for familiarity and another point for group cohesion. You need some structure and some starting positions and something to maintain continuity.An interesting one here would be something like Montsegur 1244.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 9318881, member: 87792"] This to me is not as load bearing a foundation as I think you think it is. Essentially you seem to be saying that two things are in direct opposition in a near zero sum game when they are merely in conflict. Weight and speed may be in conflict but this doesn't make a hot air balloon faster than a jet fighter. And here is where it shows. Mechanistic is not the opposite of fiction based. This isn't a scale, it is two separate numbers in conflict but not contradiction. And [I]continuity and callbacks are bedrocks of actual stories[/I]. Adding mechanics makes it easier to have continuity and callbacks/ Indeed. I've made several comments about Dungeon World not being a very good PBTA game; for one example its hard coded class structure reminiscent more of D&D than other PbtA games means that many avenues of character growth and large twists that Apocalypse World and Monsterhearts encourage are simply not available. Thirsty Sword Lesbians for what it's worth feels to me like a PBTA "Greatest hits album"; it makes no actively bad choices but there's nowhere it makes me say "wow!" or really nails its theme the way e.g. Monsterhearts (to which it owes a lot) does. I'm going to disagree with what I believe to be your fundamental argument here. [I]Pure Freeform[/I] isn't even close a level 9 or 10. Bone might be weight that doesn't add power - but freeform without structure is a beached jellyfish. It's about a four. When you start to add some structure and implicit mechanics like the "yes and" structure of Improv then you're rising to about a six or seven and a land-based octopus. And you can easily add a point for familiarity and another point for group cohesion. You need some structure and some starting positions and something to maintain continuity. An interesting one here would be something like Montsegur 1244. [/QUOTE]

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