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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 9316914" data-attributes="member: 42582">Some tail-waggers are dogs. This will not show that all tailp-waggers are dogs. Nor that all dogs are tail-waggers.You asserted that the essay from which, as Vincent Baker puts it, the entire game design of Apocalypse World follows, is counterproductive. And then, in reply to [USER=6785785]@hawkeyefan[/USER] you asserted that AW (and games influenced or derived from it) are not played as intended by their designers, and seemed to imply that if AW is played as intended &quot;it will all go wrong&quot;.I ask again, what is your play experience with any of the RPGs that Edwards discusses in his essay? Or with AW, or other PbtA games? Or with BitD, or other FitD games? Or with Burning Wheel, or other games that have come out of BWHQ? With any game that has been designed to support, and is widely regarded as supporting, narrativist play?Some carnivores are doges. My cat is a carnivore. Therefore my cat is a dog. Oh wait, that's not a sound inference either . . .What makes D&amp;D a RPG is not that people do funny voice while resolving combat encounters to which those voices are not relevant. If D&amp;D was nothing but a skirmish game that encouraged cosplay, it would not be a RPG.But as it happens, D&amp;D is a RPG because the fiction matters to resolution.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 9316914, member: 42582"] Some tail-waggers are dogs. This will not show that all tailp-waggers are dogs. Nor that all dogs are tail-waggers. You asserted that the essay from which, as Vincent Baker puts it, [I]the entire game design[/I] of Apocalypse World follows, is counterproductive. And then, in reply to [USER=6785785]@hawkeyefan[/USER] you asserted that AW (and games influenced or derived from it) are not played as intended by their designers, and seemed to imply that if AW is played as intended "it will all go wrong". I ask again, [I]what is your play experience[/I] with any of the RPGs that Edwards discusses in his essay? Or with AW, or other PbtA games? Or with BitD, or other FitD games? Or with Burning Wheel, or other games that have come out of BWHQ? With any game that has been designed to support, and is widely regarded as supporting, narrativist play? Some carnivores are doges. My cat is a carnivore. Therefore my cat is a dog. Oh wait, that's not a sound inference either . . . What makes D&D a RPG is not that people do funny voice while resolving combat encounters to which those voices are not relevant. If D&D was nothing but a skirmish game that encouraged cosplay, it would not be a RPG. But as it happens, D&D [I]is[/I] a RPG because the fiction matters to resolution. [/QUOTE]

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