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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 9317391" data-attributes="member: 82106">I'm not sure I follow you on intentions and outcomes, though I don't especially disagree that outcomes MAY not be related to intentions, but surely they FOLLOW FROM the intention. I think that's pretty much a basic tenet of criminal justice.You are correct, No Myth and Story Now are different things. However, there's a very direct relationship between Myth and Protagonism! Story Now doesn't demand that the premise be invented by any specific participant, or at any specific time, but it does demand that it address the PCs directly, that they are effectively the protagonists of the story. I mean, you can see where some games, like My Life with Master, bend that, but in fact it is still the central factor, that the object of play is to act as the protagonist, to be the one addressing the premise. So, I don't think we are particularly disagreeing.If that was the ONLY technique which distinguished them, then yes. I don't think it is...I'm not claiming that the players even set the premise, just that they address it. That they are central to the resolution of the premise and 'lead the story'.I'm not redefining anything, you all often use protagonist to just mean "a character that gets a bunch of spotlight", [USER=87792]@Neonchameleon[/USER] rather brilliantly pointed out that these are 'PoV characters' but not necessarily protagonists. Just because the game features PCs looting the Caves of Chaos doesn't make them very protagonistic, the whole setup was concocted without regard to these characters and only incidentally involves them in a pretty shallow 'conflict'.There's a huge difference between characters who are simply placed into the milieu where they're simply a generic 'point of view' and just act out a version of the story and one where everything is built around a conflict that is central to the characters.I mean, we have have semantic hair-splitting sessions till the cows come home, but there's a huge difference between the play I experience in Stonetop vs 5e where each one is played in a fairly typical fashion (and let me say that my 5e play was pretty 'evolved' play, the GM was quite good, it wasn't just stock module play). This difference has to do with the relationship between the 'things that matter' and my character.</blockquote>

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