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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 9317405" data-attributes="member: 42582">I love, love, LOVE this post!Your first example - the Ogre counters-based RPG - is what the OP of this thread talks about. Is what I most often see referred to as &quot;narrative&quot; on these boards. Is (in barest outline) what Fate is about.Can it be used for narrativist play? Maybe, maybe not. Who decides the flavour of the GM's counters? If the GM does, it's probably not going to be narrativist. And can the player use their counters to avoid or win all the hard situations, that might change their character or the thematic meaning of events? If they can, then it's probably not going to be narrativist. It will be a version of what Edwards called high concept simulationism; or else it will be a version of what he called gamism, but probably where the competition is reasonably low or at least light-hearted, and the fiction is very prominent and colourful.Do most games designed for narrativist play look like your Ogre counter game? Not to the best of my knowledge. They mostly look either like Prince Valiant and Maelstrom Storytelling (HeroWars/Quest, Burning Wheel, 4e D&amp;D in the pemerton/[USER=6696971]@Manbearcat[/USER]/etc style) or else like Apocalypse World (PbtA, FitD, Agon 2e, etc).Re you closing sentences: after reading Edward, I did 4 or 5 more years of fortnightly Rolemaster play. (So 100s of hours.) What he said definitely helped me do what I wanted to do! And the treatment of the endgame in Czege's Nicotine Girls, which I learned about via Edwards (I can't recall the exact pathway) really helped me bring the RM game to a conclusion that I wouldn't have been able to do otherwise.But it is true that I've not gone back to RM in the subsequent 15 and a bit years.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 9317405, member: 42582"] I love, love, LOVE this post! Your first example - the Ogre counters-based RPG - is what the OP of this thread talks about. Is what I most often see referred to as "narrative" on these boards. Is (in barest outline) what Fate is about. Can it be used for narrativist play? Maybe, maybe not. Who decides the flavour of the GM's counters? If the GM does, it's probably not going to be narrativist. And can the player use their counters to avoid or win all the hard situations, that might change their character or the thematic meaning of events? If they can, then it's probably not going to be narrativist. It will be a version of what Edwards called high concept simulationism; or else it will be a version of what he called gamism, but probably where the competition is reasonably low or at least light-hearted, and the fiction is very prominent and colourful. Do most games designed for narrativist play look like your Ogre counter game? Not to the best of my knowledge. They mostly look either like Prince Valiant and Maelstrom Storytelling (HeroWars/Quest, Burning Wheel, 4e D&D in the pemerton/[USER=6696971]@Manbearcat[/USER]/etc style) or else like Apocalypse World (PbtA, FitD, Agon 2e, etc). Re you closing sentences: after reading Edward, I did 4 or 5 more years of fortnightly Rolemaster play. (So 100s of hours.) What he said definitely helped me do what I wanted to do! And the treatment of the endgame in Czege's Nicotine Girls, which I learned about via Edwards (I can't recall the exact pathway) really helped me bring the RM game to a conclusion that I wouldn't have been able to do otherwise. But it is true that I've not gone back to RM in the subsequent 15 and a bit years. [/QUOTE]

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