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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 9317565" data-attributes="member: 42582">If you conclude that Czege, Edwards, Baker, Crane and crew &quot;dont' actually like RPGs&quot;, I think you need to go back and re-read. These are people who have given their whole lives and intellectual efforts to these things, and written some of the best examples of the game form!I mean, Luke Crane loves RPGs so much that he designed one, Revised it, revised it again (Gold) and again (Gold revised). And during all that, went and played Moldvay Basic hard, and helped Thor design another one (Torchbearer).Baker loves them so much he gave us In A Wicked Age, and then DitV, and then Apocalypse World which - as I posted upthread - is arguably the most impactful RPG since RuneQuest.You can see the love of RPGing in their designs, in their commentary, in Baker's case in his huge body of analytical and design notes. Edwards love of RPGing comes through in his essays, in a profound way.The fact that you can't see player-driven, protagonistic RPGing through any lens other than &quot;bad DMs screwing over their OC characters&quot;&nbsp; makes me think that your conception of RPGs not only centres, but is confined to, GM-driven stortyelling of the sort that became predominant in the mid-80s or thereabouts.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 9317565, member: 42582"] If you conclude that Czege, Edwards, Baker, Crane and crew "dont' actually like RPGs", I think you need to go back and re-read. These are people who have given their whole lives and intellectual efforts to these things, and written some of the best examples of the game form! I mean, Luke Crane loves RPGs so much that he designed one, Revised it, revised it again (Gold) and again (Gold revised). And during all that, went and played Moldvay Basic hard, and helped Thor design another one (Torchbearer). Baker loves them so much he gave us In A Wicked Age, and then DitV, and then Apocalypse World which - as I posted upthread - is arguably the most impactful RPG since RuneQuest. You can see the love of RPGing in their designs, in their commentary, in Baker's case in his huge body of analytical and design notes. Edwards love of RPGing comes through in his essays, in a profound way. The fact that you can't see player-driven, protagonistic RPGing through any lens other than "bad DMs screwing over their OC characters" makes me think that your conception of RPGs not only centres, but is confined to, GM-driven stortyelling of the sort that became predominant in the mid-80s or thereabouts. [/QUOTE]

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