Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
What makes an TTRPG a "Narrative Game" (Daggerheart Discussion)
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="thefutilist" data-source="post: 9318520" data-attributes="member: 7044566"><p>I’m a famous no-myth hater and so I endorse this message but it’s a bit more complicated than all that. It depends what no-myth means in the context it’s used.</p><p></p><p>There isn’t actually a reality behind the scenes and so what we’re talking about is the process of (1) deciding what things are in a scene (2) deciding what things can enter a scene (3) deciding what previously established ‘stuff’ changes that doesn’t appear in a scene.</p><p></p><p>So let’s look at fixed stuff first. The most common fixed elements are locations and NPC attitudes. If you have a dungeon map and the process of deciding what’s in a scene involves looking at the map, and in fact you ‘have’ to look at the map. We can consider that fixed.</p><p></p><p>Fixed = must be this way, you’re not allowed to suddenly change it.</p><p></p><p>Then, time and distance is commonly added but at different levels of granularity.</p><p></p><p>So in Sorcerer I might write that Maximilian is going to blow up the telecommunications tower on Tuesday. It’s a bit fuzzy though and so I ‘can’ choose the most dramatic time to blow it up, as long as it’s on Tuesday.</p><p></p><p>At greater granularity I might have to decide the actual time it blows up.</p><p></p><p>Same with space (and everyone can see how this connects with time). The entrance to the ruins are in the wetlands v the entrance to the ruins are 3 miles south by south east into the wetlands.</p><p></p><p>Anyway this matters a bit because when you decide what’s in a scene you may have to track where various npc’s are and the different levels of granularity matter.</p><p></p><p>So my general process of scene framing, in Sorcerer and Apocalypse World, is to figure out where the NPC’s are (roughly) what they’re up to (called Bangs), then see what the various P.C’s are doing and seeing if they intersect with each other in some way, that’s where I’ll cut to. I do that with somewhat fuzzy granularity unless it matters but it’s never on the granularity of something like GURPS.</p><p></p><p>Anyway I might have gone off on a massive tangent. My main point is that there’s a process by which stuff is introduced and thinking about stuff in terms of the imaginary world can obfuscate that process.</p><p></p><p>Now no-myth at it’s best is a reminder that we can use the fuzzy granularity and the non-fixed points to make things cool. Also to be wary of what points we fix and how we fix them and how we communicate that information to make sure choices can retain thematic charge.</p><p></p><p>For instance: Imagine you decide that the Players lover has been kidnapped and is being held in a basement under the tech building. The player doesn’t know this and blows up the tech building for unrelated reasons. Well then you’ve committed yourself to saying their lover is dead.</p><p></p><p>Which, I think you should do and I think it’s perfectly legitimate. Yet you can see how this starts collapsing all theme into what basically amounts to, naughty word happens. Which isn’t particularity satisfying.</p><p></p><p>So one very good use of no-myth is to contrive ways to communicate consequences and to do this constantly. In fact I do this all the time.</p><p></p><p>At it’s worst (and in fact in it’s original form), no-myth basically gives unilateral control to the GM with the instructions ‘make it interesting and thematic.’ Which means the GM is now part entertainer, part psycho-therapist.</p><p></p><p>Anyway, in my ideal world people wouldn’t use the term because I tend to use it in it’s original context and if people are using differently (which happens a lot) then I have to figure out what they mean. That’s maybe a me problem though.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="thefutilist, post: 9318520, member: 7044566"] I’m a famous no-myth hater and so I endorse this message but it’s a bit more complicated than all that. It depends what no-myth means in the context it’s used. There isn’t actually a reality behind the scenes and so what we’re talking about is the process of (1) deciding what things are in a scene (2) deciding what things can enter a scene (3) deciding what previously established ‘stuff’ changes that doesn’t appear in a scene. So let’s look at fixed stuff first. The most common fixed elements are locations and NPC attitudes. If you have a dungeon map and the process of deciding what’s in a scene involves looking at the map, and in fact you ‘have’ to look at the map. We can consider that fixed. Fixed = must be this way, you’re not allowed to suddenly change it. Then, time and distance is commonly added but at different levels of granularity. So in Sorcerer I might write that Maximilian is going to blow up the telecommunications tower on Tuesday. It’s a bit fuzzy though and so I ‘can’ choose the most dramatic time to blow it up, as long as it’s on Tuesday. At greater granularity I might have to decide the actual time it blows up. Same with space (and everyone can see how this connects with time). The entrance to the ruins are in the wetlands v the entrance to the ruins are 3 miles south by south east into the wetlands. Anyway this matters a bit because when you decide what’s in a scene you may have to track where various npc’s are and the different levels of granularity matter. So my general process of scene framing, in Sorcerer and Apocalypse World, is to figure out where the NPC’s are (roughly) what they’re up to (called Bangs), then see what the various P.C’s are doing and seeing if they intersect with each other in some way, that’s where I’ll cut to. I do that with somewhat fuzzy granularity unless it matters but it’s never on the granularity of something like GURPS. Anyway I might have gone off on a massive tangent. My main point is that there’s a process by which stuff is introduced and thinking about stuff in terms of the imaginary world can obfuscate that process. Now no-myth at it’s best is a reminder that we can use the fuzzy granularity and the non-fixed points to make things cool. Also to be wary of what points we fix and how we fix them and how we communicate that information to make sure choices can retain thematic charge. For instance: Imagine you decide that the Players lover has been kidnapped and is being held in a basement under the tech building. The player doesn’t know this and blows up the tech building for unrelated reasons. Well then you’ve committed yourself to saying their lover is dead. Which, I think you should do and I think it’s perfectly legitimate. Yet you can see how this starts collapsing all theme into what basically amounts to, naughty word happens. Which isn’t particularity satisfying. So one very good use of no-myth is to contrive ways to communicate consequences and to do this constantly. In fact I do this all the time. At it’s worst (and in fact in it’s original form), no-myth basically gives unilateral control to the GM with the instructions ‘make it interesting and thematic.’ Which means the GM is now part entertainer, part psycho-therapist. Anyway, in my ideal world people wouldn’t use the term because I tend to use it in it’s original context and if people are using differently (which happens a lot) then I have to figure out what they mean. That’s maybe a me problem though. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
What makes an TTRPG a "Narrative Game" (Daggerheart Discussion)
Top