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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 9318649" data-attributes="member: 87792">Sure ... If you want to think of tabletop RPGs as inferior video games that shouldn't attempt to anything that isn't done far far better by computers.You want to be Tony Stark assembling things from a box of scraps and have a first hand experience? The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild, Minecraft, Kerbal Space Program, or Dwarf Fortress will serve you far, far better than a tabletop RPG ever could. Want to be the best simulated combat team? Any MMO raid team has a more intense and varied experience and if you want to razor-hone your skills there's always League of Legends and DotA 2. Or if you want to pull off high skill shenanigans EVE Online is where it is at.And those games all do easily produce stories, while producing faster, more intense, more challenging and more visceral experiences than people sitting round a table speaking in silly voices and slinging dice.You can and do have challenges in narrative-style and NoMyth RPGs. (And on that note you're a lot more likely to actually reach failure in a narrative RPG than a trad one which says things about the actual difficulty). But if you want either challenge or putting complex things together to be a key part of the experience put the dice down and go do things better for it.Narrative RPGs on the other hand have a heavy focus on two things where sitting down with people at a table is still superior to a computer. Telling stories together and emotional engagement by getting into the emotional state of your character.Both Dogs in the Vineyard and Apocalypse World started out as "can ludonarrative be an improvement on freeform narrative". Vincent Baker's first playtester is his wife Meguey Baker and she is a highly experienced freeform roleplayer. He knows he has a good design when she reflexively reaches for the dice both because they don't get in her way and they improve the experience.Honestly what most RPG groups investigate is having fun with friends. But yes, some things get investigated. And this is why I keep coming back to Apocalypse World - and even Monsterhearts.</blockquote>

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