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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Emberashh" data-source="post: 9319114" data-attributes="member: 7040941">Ie, you're talking about agency, as I stated.Ah, so the reason you think you're not talking about agency is that you're arbitrarily creating tiers in whats meant by "choices", and the choices as we recognize in what agency is are some lesser form. But sure, lets run with the premise that what Wikipedia has to say about Protagonists, which as noted is explicitly about protagonists in literature and not games, is applicable. Here's what comes up when I slap "Agency Literature" into the google search bar:For clarity, this is what you quoted from Wikipedia:So are we now going to try and say that "actions" in the definition of literary agency somehow doesn't include what we would call "key decisions"? There are no other definitions. Just what the rest of the literary world agrees it means and what the Forge says it means. Game design is game design, and game writing is a part of that, whether we're talking movie plots or the complete absence of plot. Which is all besides the point that, even in a TTRPG, individual player characters do not work like literary protagonists. Literary protagonists, which is what you've chosen as your correct definition, are entirely preauthored. Game protagonists are not; they can't be, because player actions cannot be predicted or authored. If the logic here is clarity then I can only imagine the kooky things that must come with this logic's form of clairvoyance. I think what you're trying to say is that I'm just an idiot who can't possibly fathom what you're even talking about, and just need to get my head out of my ass and agree with you.Of course, you can't actually say that, so you shoot from the center line trying to gaslight me, as though I'm not looking at several google results in the vein "what does this even mean?"As an aside, heres an interesting snippet of one result:[ATTACH=full]358413[/ATTACH]Golly, there goes the GM Tyrant from a 3rd party source this time. Makes me wonder if there's perhaps a reason for that rooted in something the GM always has control over...All systems provide you protagonist PCs. This is, to reiterate, how games work. And its particularly poignant, I have to add, when we consider the idea of a players expectation not being met as related in the snippet, and then juxtapose that issue with the overall point of any tabletop game being a collaborative venture. As the snippet says, there's a desire to want to be the star of the show, the capital-P Protagonist. Something that, apparently has to go beyond what you already are by virtue of playing the game. This, to reiterate, is why I'm pointing to the distinction between Game and Literary Protagonists. Here's a great link to look at on that very subject, by the way:[URL unfurl="true"]https://www.killyourdarlings.com.au/article/video-game-writing-and-a-protagonist-you-dont-control[/URL]And a key quote:This is where the Writer's Room thats often denounced comes from, fyi. When what a game writer does becomes what the Players do, you're in a Writer's Room. Because the GM is also a Player and its a critical mistake I think all RPGs are making in not designing adequate and engaging gameplay for them beyond Improv and Combat, may be, and relegating satisfaction to watching everyone else actually play. I started this hobby by full sending into being a DM for 5e. I was sold on the promise of a fun experience in of itself, because to me at the time what DM actually did was obscured and it seemed like the funner part of the experience. While it was by no means "not fun" it also isn't something Id ever categorize as a comprehensive gameplay experience, and much of my actual fun came more from writing and designing, which aren't gameplay and things I didn't need the game to facilitate. That's why I call my GMs World Keepers, because I'm designing their gameplay around a kind of world management that will stay consistently fun and can be engaged with as consistently as players engage with their own gameplay. And all of that before the two roles merge and all the usual fun parts express themselves.</blockquote>

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