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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 9319836" data-attributes="member: 82106">Yeah, my brain is still foggy from this darned cold I have. What I meant was that there's a gulf in conceptual frameworks between yourself and [USER=7040941]@Emberashh[/USER] which seems to lead him to see the signs as a kind of breadcrumb mechanism, or perhaps that he was saying that the sign was only a way for the player to signal their win condition in a specific contest. I'm not sure what his procedure was exactly, if the player or the GM interpreted the sign (or maybe it was just assumed that it had an unambiguous meaning and what he's saying is that the meaning only became clear at that point in play, which is missing the whole point of signs IMHO). I'm beginning to see how it is very difficult for some people to inhabit a mind set where the goal is not accomplishing certain things within the fiction in play, but in accomplishing things THROUGH PLAY. I'm not focused on what is accomplished IN GAME particularly at all. I mean, it is very important, but RPGs extend far beyond that, and not just in a purely mechanical book keeping sense! I expect we share some of this &quot;the shape of the whole game experience is pleasing when...&quot; kind of thing. In the case of Agon and Signs it is pleasing when the leader makes clever and imaginative use of them to contextualize play and, for instance, mark divine favor in the vault of heaven.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 9319836, member: 82106"] Yeah, my brain is still foggy from this darned cold I have. What I meant was that there's a gulf in conceptual frameworks between yourself and [USER=7040941]@Emberashh[/USER] which seems to lead him to see the signs as a kind of breadcrumb mechanism, or perhaps that he was saying that the sign was only a way for the player to signal their win condition in a specific contest. I'm not sure what his procedure was exactly, if the player or the GM interpreted the sign (or maybe it was just assumed that it had an unambiguous meaning and what he's saying is that the meaning only became clear at that point in play, which is missing the whole point of signs IMHO). I'm beginning to see how it is very difficult for some people to inhabit a mind set where the goal is not accomplishing certain things within the fiction in play, but in accomplishing things THROUGH PLAY. I'm not focused on what is accomplished IN GAME particularly at all. I mean, it is very important, but RPGs extend far beyond that, and not just in a purely mechanical book keeping sense! I expect we share some of this "the shape of the whole game experience is pleasing when..." kind of thing. In the case of Agon and Signs it is pleasing when the leader makes clever and imaginative use of them to contextualize play and, for instance, mark divine favor in the vault of heaven. [/QUOTE]

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