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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 9330444" data-attributes="member: 42582">Is it? Gandalf challenged Theoden in his own court, and gained an ally who ended up being absolutely crucial in the unfolding struggle against Saruman and Sauron.In a different way he subsequently challenged Denethor, too. That worked out differently, but certainly not as Denethor might have willed things going in. All the fictional positioning that you refer to here resides solely in the GM's imagination. It's not a shared imagining.And the recipe you prescribe for play is all GM-centred as well: identify possible sympathisers, garner their sympathies, eventually take down the tyrant.No one has asserted that narrativist 5e D&amp;D is impossible. I, at least, have suggested it's not an ideal tool. And we can already see one reason why - when the player wants to identify sympathisers, there is no obvious mechanism other than looking to see what the GM provides (contrast, say, BW/Torchbearer Circles, or creating a Resource in MHRP).We can see another reason, too - the &quot;eventually&quot;. 5e D&amp;D has no clear resolution procedure for attempts to achieve things that happen over an extended period of time. It's resolution - both spells, and ability/skill checks - are oriented towards discrete and relatively short moments of time (seconds, minutes - even the hours involved in a long rest are notorious for triggering discussion and disagreement over whether this is a unit of time that the GM should treat as indivisible or as still liable to encounter checks, interruption etc).As I said, I'd love to be informed about all this narrativistic 5e play that is taking place, but still wait to be pointed to it.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 9330444, member: 42582"] Is it? Gandalf challenged Theoden in his own court, and gained an ally who ended up being absolutely crucial in the unfolding struggle against Saruman and Sauron. In a different way he subsequently challenged Denethor, too. That worked out differently, but certainly not as Denethor might have willed things going in. All the fictional positioning that you refer to here resides solely in the GM's imagination. It's not a shared imagining. And the recipe you prescribe for play is all GM-centred as well: identify possible sympathisers, garner their sympathies, eventually take down the tyrant. No one has asserted that narrativist 5e D&D is impossible. I, at least, have suggested it's not an ideal tool. And we can already see one reason why - when the player wants to identify sympathisers, there is no obvious mechanism other than looking to see what the GM provides (contrast, say, BW/Torchbearer Circles, or creating a Resource in MHRP). We can see another reason, too - the "eventually". 5e D&D has no clear resolution procedure for attempts to achieve things that happen over an extended period of time. It's resolution - both spells, and ability/skill checks - are oriented towards discrete and relatively short moments of time (seconds, minutes - even the hours involved in a long rest are notorious for triggering discussion and disagreement over whether this is a unit of time that the GM should treat as indivisible or as still liable to encounter checks, interruption etc). As I said, I'd love to be informed about all this narrativistic 5e play that is taking place, but still wait to be pointed to it. [/QUOTE]

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