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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 9330476" data-attributes="member: 42582">I think the notion that there's some sort of tension between combat as an in-fiction activity and character-driven play results from the idea that &quot;roleplaying&quot; consists in presenting the character vis what the character says. And because combat is not very talk-y, it's therefore not very &quot;roleplay-y&quot; and hence not very much about the character.And this way of thinking about it all rests, in turn, on the idea that the GM is the one who controls framing, and stakes. Which is not to say that the GM is necessarily forcing the fight - maybe the GM is happy for the players to have their PCs try and escape or sneak instead, but that's taking place in a context of expedience (&quot;the fight's too risky, so we'll sneak instead&quot;), not players authoring their own goals and stakes. (Many times I've seen posts where GMs talk about placing an encounter with the expectation that the players will be &quot;smart&quot; and work out that the rational - in the sense of expedient, efficient, etc thing - is to sneak past it.)But as soon as we allow for player-authored goals and stakes, then combat just as much as anything else can serve as an opportunity for the character to be expressed and drive play. Like in my Torchbearer game, after I narrated Megloss incinerating Gerda by summoning the Flames of the Shroud, I noticed Golin's player putting together a big pile of dice. &quot;What's that about?&quot; &quot;I'm going to attack Megloss!&quot; &quot;Kill conflict?&quot; &quot;What do you think?&quot; &quot;Why so many dice? Aren't you only Fighter 4?&quot; &quot;Well, those ones are my Avenging Grudges Nature - he just killed my friend.&quot;Now we know what Golin stands for, what he's prepared to risk (in Torchbearer, a player who initiates a kill conflict has put their own PC's death on the line), etc.(I think this also illustrates your point, upthread, that the RPG medium doesn't necessarily rely on the same expository devices as film. In a film there's no such thing as spending a point of Persona to include Avenging Grudges dice.)</blockquote>

[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 9330476, member: 42582"] I think the notion that there's some sort of tension between [I]combat[/I] as an in-fiction activity and [I]character-driven play[/I] results from the idea that "roleplaying" consists in presenting the character vis what the character says. And because combat is not very talk-y, it's therefore not very "roleplay-y" and hence not very much about the character. And this way of thinking about it all rests, in turn, on the idea that the GM is the one who controls framing, and stakes. Which is not to say that the GM is necessarily forcing the fight - maybe the GM is happy for the players to have their PCs try and escape or sneak instead, but that's taking place in a context of [I]expedience[/I] ("the fight's too risky, so we'll sneak instead"), not players authoring their own goals and stakes. (Many times I've seen posts where GMs talk about placing an encounter with the expectation that the players will be "smart" and work out that the rational - in the sense of expedient, efficient, etc thing - is to sneak past it.) But as soon as we allow for player-authored goals and stakes, then combat just as much as anything else can serve as an opportunity for the character to be expressed and drive play. Like in my Torchbearer game, after I narrated Megloss incinerating Gerda by summoning the Flames of the Shroud, I noticed Golin's player putting together a big pile of dice. "What's that about?" "I'm going to attack Megloss!" "Kill conflict?" "What do [I]you[/I] think?" "Why so many dice? Aren't you only Fighter 4?" "Well, those ones are my Avenging Grudges Nature - he just killed my friend." Now we know what Golin stands for, what he's prepared to risk (in Torchbearer, a player who initiates a kill conflict has put their own PC's death on the line), etc. (I think this also illustrates your point, upthread, that the RPG medium doesn't necessarily rely on the same expository devices as film. In a film there's no such thing as spending a point of Persona to include Avenging Grudges dice.) [/QUOTE]

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