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<blockquote data-quote="Pedantic" data-source="post: 9330902" data-attributes="member: 6690965">No, and I think that's orthogonal to my point. I was specifically calling out an excluded middle; it's too reductive to separate mechanics into &quot;GM decides&quot; and &quot;narrative player driven.&quot; I found Campbell's post helpful in refocusing the discussion:It makes clear that driving what occurs is a separate concern from the narrativist premise. If I'm perfectly blunt, I think the trad/nar tension in so much as it ever weighed on D&amp;D's design, especially around the 4e era as a reaction 3e, and then 5e as a reaction to 4e, had the unfortunate side-effect of driving design sentiment to extremes; either you bake your position into your resolution mechanics and focus play around it, or you're not doing it at all and the GM decides everything, when I think there's whole other axes of player agency/decision making and design goals to consider.This is an aside, however, so pulling it back to the point on the table, I think perhaps my point is that neotrad design, the kind of &quot;narrative&quot; that Daggerheart and similar games might be going for, embraces some of those player-driven/character theme exploration goals, but does not concede that conflict resolution is a preferred means to achieve them.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Pedantic, post: 9330902, member: 6690965"] No, and I think that's orthogonal to my point. I was specifically calling out an excluded middle; it's too reductive to separate mechanics into "GM decides" and "narrative player driven." I found Campbell's post helpful in refocusing the discussion: It makes clear that driving what occurs is a separate concern from the narrativist premise. If I'm perfectly blunt, I think the trad/nar tension in so much as it ever weighed on D&D's design, especially around the 4e era as a reaction 3e, and then 5e as a reaction to 4e, had the unfortunate side-effect of driving design sentiment to extremes; either you bake your position into your resolution mechanics and focus play around it, or you're not doing it at all and the GM decides everything, when I think there's whole other axes of player agency/decision making and design goals to consider. This is an aside, however, so pulling it back to the point on the table, I think perhaps my point is that neotrad design, the kind of "narrative" that Daggerheart and similar games might be going for, embraces some of those player-driven/character theme exploration goals, but does not concede that conflict resolution is a preferred means to achieve them. [/QUOTE]

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