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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Crimson Longinus" data-source="post: 9331194" data-attributes="member: 7025508">It is not a red herring. Circles checks and similar are player powers that let them acausally affect the game reality. Just accept it, as it is the truth, and admitting it makes the discussion easier. And yes, the flip side is that this takes the decision away from the GM, which I think it is important part for you. Nevertheless, the process is what it is.Like this is not a minor flavour difference, it is quite fundamental. It is completely different game if a character can make the things they want to appear merely by looking hard enough for them anywhere, or whether they actually need to look for things that are predetermined to exist and at the locations they're determined to be. And both are fine, but I don't think the former is inherently a higher agency state, it just has different sort of agency. Like I have said before, the latter is for example required to have genuinely agency of solving a murder mystery. It also required for haven certain sort of strategic agency that relies on utilising existing elements. Well, someone has to, usually it is the GM. I don't remember whether in BW the GM must let the player to roll anything they might demand. At least I know they can make the DC effectively impossible (which is way easier in BW than in 5e D&D) Also in Blades the GM set the position and effect, and I don't think there is stipulation that the player must be able to have any effect they desire. So in practically any game some things are impossible, and usually it is the GM who makes the final determination what those things are.First, we don't know if there was any roll, what chances it had to succeed, and what the outcome would have been if it had. Second, the player might choose still to do it even if they don't think they can succeed; they might want to make a point by being a martyr. Third, whilst sometimes it might be good idea for the GM to reminds the player about the realities of their position, I don't think the GM necessarily need to hold their hand this way. The players are free to make choices, even bad ones.*(* Also, several times I've seen players to make choices that I as GM thought were insane, but then the dice turned out to like the players a lot and by a miracle they manage to pull it off.)</blockquote>

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