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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 9334028" data-attributes="member: 82106">IMHO this is ALL a problem of failure to allow the player to initially establish what they're putting at risk! That could be a failure of transparency in which the GM and player are failing to communicate, or a result of hidden backstory which clobbers the fictional position. Now, interestingly, you CAN have hidden backstory of a sort, like in DW (or AW for that matter) where dangers might not be known ahead of time but 'on a map' or 'part of a front'. HOWEVER, the GM is heavily bound by principles which, if followed correctly, will prevent the sorts of issues you are encountering here. So, for instance, if the player is rolling for his PC to find the papers in the safe, by cracking it presumably, then IT IS ALREADY ESTABLISHED that the consequences of not getting those papers is on the table. Fictionally the GM can describe it as "the safe is empty" and in AW/DW that would simply be a GM move that would be perfectly fine on a 6-. Success is likewise not a problem, the player and the GM have already established that this outcome is within the bounds of what can happen. Thus 'intent' and 'action resolution' can, in this sort of case, be brought fully into harmony with each other.I don't know much about your examples here, but the GM in games like BW seems to be pretty much a 'framer of scenes and bringing of opposition'. That's fine. This IS Story Now Narrativist play, there's no place things are supposed to go. Play to Find Out. The GM isn't pushing, the GM is simply letting the poo fall where the poo may fall.I disagree! Why does the player feel like an idiot? He's playing, and he's finding out! What does he do now? His sister is going to be executed tomorrow and he's got no evidence to exonerate her. This is where the rubber meets the road, you are now going to find out what your PC is made of.All I as the player have to do is play as my character. I want to meet the princess, so I do all the things necessary to achieve that. If, as a player, the dice tell me this is not how it will play out, then that's fine too, those are the terms of engagement with the game. I might, at most, think "gosh it would have been interesting." Oh well. I RP my now very disappointed character going on a 3 day drinking binge and waking up in the King's gaol with a bad hangover and a 300 coin fine that he cannot pay!Well, as GM, the PC is in the gaol and now I drop the news on him that he owes 300 coin. Now a new set of priorities and exigencies has established itself by dint of 'soft move, announce badness'.I don't need causality AHEAD OF TIME at all though, IMHO. I only need it to use AFTER some dice got rolled. First establish what the obstacle is, what the PC is risking, roll the dice, and tell the tale. Pure Fortune-In-the-Middle design!</blockquote>

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