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<blockquote data-quote="wingsandsword" data-source="post: 8225105" data-attributes="member: 14159">It wasn't the ONLY problem with 4e, but it certainly contributed.As a fan of the Great Wheel, I recognize that not EVERY D&amp;D setting is normally a part of it, that there have been official D&amp;D settings that didn't use it or used another cosmology (Mystara and Eberron come to mind as alternate cosmologies, and low level/low magic D&amp;D settings tend to not deal with the planes much, like the 2e Historic Reference series). . .but I do see it as a presumed default setting, that for core D&amp;D, if you're using the planes, the Great Wheel and the accompanying D&amp;D multiverse is the presumed planar structure unless the setting specifically stipulates something else.4e had a lot of problems with trying to change things to be allegedly &quot;better&quot;, but without any care for if they stayed with the &quot;look and feel&quot; of D&amp;D, and tossing out the Great Wheel was a really good way to exemplify this in conversation succinctly and with one point that was easy to understand as a major change, even if it was only one of many changes that were less blatant but had just as profound an impact (or more) on the game.I've long said that if 4e had been released under a different name, as a competing fantasy RPG, it might have had a far better response in the market than trying to brand it as D&amp;D, and presenting its setting presumptions (Axis cosmology, primordials, shadowfell &amp; feywild etc.) as a canonical replacement for the longstanding default D&amp;D cosmology of the &quot;great wheel&quot;), complete with WotC marketing denouncing the &quot;Great Wheel&quot;.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="wingsandsword, post: 8225105, member: 14159"] It wasn't the ONLY problem with 4e, but it certainly contributed. As a fan of the Great Wheel, I recognize that not EVERY D&D setting is normally a part of it, that there have been official D&D settings that didn't use it or used another cosmology (Mystara and Eberron come to mind as alternate cosmologies, and low level/low magic D&D settings tend to not deal with the planes much, like the 2e Historic Reference series). . .but I do see it as a presumed default setting, that for core D&D, if you're using the planes, the Great Wheel and the accompanying D&D multiverse is the presumed planar structure unless the setting specifically stipulates something else. 4e had a lot of problems with trying to change things to be allegedly "better", but without any care for if they stayed with the "look and feel" of D&D, and tossing out the Great Wheel was a really good way to exemplify this in conversation succinctly and with one point that was easy to understand as a major change, even if it was only one of many changes that were less blatant but had just as profound an impact (or more) on the game. I've long said that if 4e had been released under a different name, as a competing fantasy RPG, it might have had a far better response in the market than trying to brand it as D&D, and presenting its setting presumptions (Axis cosmology, primordials, shadowfell & feywild etc.) as a canonical replacement for the longstanding default D&D cosmology of the "great wheel"), complete with WotC marketing denouncing the "Great Wheel". [/QUOTE]

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