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<blockquote data-quote="BenBrown" data-source="post: 5755177" data-attributes="member: 1642">1) Dungeons2) Dragonsand neither of those has to show up all the time.Holmes Basic plays entirely different from 4E, and has pretty much nothing in common except the names of some things (classes, races, spells) and the six D&amp;D stats, and yet I'm not going to declare either of them to be &quot;Not D&amp;D&quot;&nbsp; The six stats and rolling a 20-sided die to determine if you hit in combat are practically the only things that have survived without major alteration since D&amp;D's beginnings, and I'm not entirely convinced that those are indispensable.&nbsp;&nbsp; At this point the d20 is pretty-well ingrained, but you could change to 3d6 (variant rules available in Unearthed Arcana) and still be D&amp;D.&nbsp; You could also fold the stats into classes/races without losing much in current (4E) D&amp;D.Just as it's impossible to say a whole lot about what a dog is that fits each and every individual dog, but does not also fit a whole lot of non-dogs, so it is impossible at this point to describe D&amp;D in a way that fits every individual D&amp;D without including a whole lot of not D&amp;D.&nbsp; Perhaps Justice Stewart's method is the best to follow.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="BenBrown, post: 5755177, member: 1642"] 1) Dungeons 2) Dragons and neither of those has to show up all the time. Holmes Basic plays entirely different from 4E, and has pretty much nothing in common except the names of some things (classes, races, spells) and the six D&D stats, and yet I'm not going to declare either of them to be "Not D&D" The six stats and rolling a 20-sided die to determine if you hit in combat are practically the only things that have survived without major alteration since D&D's beginnings, and I'm not entirely convinced that those are indispensable. At this point the d20 is pretty-well ingrained, but you could change to 3d6 (variant rules available in Unearthed Arcana) and still be D&D. You could also fold the stats into classes/races without losing much in current (4E) D&D. Just as it's impossible to say a whole lot about what a dog is that fits each and every individual dog, but does not also fit a whole lot of non-dogs, so it is impossible at this point to describe D&D in a way that fits every individual D&D without including a whole lot of not D&D. Perhaps Justice Stewart's method is the best to follow. [/QUOTE]

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