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Message: <blockquote data-quote="RenleyRenfield" data-source="post: 9811647" data-attributes="member: 7044197">To kind of expand on what my thoughts were and to explore concepts of gaming in general for discussion =The depiction of non-human races and magic and gods in these settings is overwhelmingly reliant on shallow, one-dimensional archetypes that preclude any concept of development, evolution, or meaningful difference beyond aesthetics. Compelling worlds are defined by acknowledging the power/tech and its changes to the world over time. Fantasy settings fail to deliver any of this.While would agree that Star Wars has some aspects that work to fix this, and the Jedi order/council is some part of that (however hamhanded and poorly written it was).  But it too falls into "aliens are pointless and hold no place in the setting that humans could not also hold. Thus aliens are just pallet swapped humans."Babylon 5 tried to touch on to all of this (and I think that may be what I love about Sci-Fi over fantasy = Sci-Fi appears to try and create compelling and functional settings where the purpose of tech or alien is deeply tied to the core function of its setting and their limitations guide principles of purpose and stakes).   Not all Sci-Fi does this well, but if I were to put my opinion out there, 0/10 fantasy does that, where as 9/10 sci fi does.And that is the problem... Fantasy settings are just really really shallow.  Even some 'eastern fantasy' rpgs, that claim a kinda base eastern influence game falls hard back onto generic D&D spells, demons, and general culture (with a super fake patina of eastern art painted over it.)  How can you make a game supposedly about xianxia and not have it deeply rooted in cultivation?   Oh, because its actual base influence was Rome and Greece and medieval Europe  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":P" title="Stick out tongue    :P"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":P" />  back to square one...again...... But none of that matters.Really, it's just a backdrop for a GM (and sometimes players too), to create their story.  And they can blow things up, or make thing relevant and purposeful.   And I think some groups do this.My answer originally was in regards to "what rpg game would you play for X games?" and my answer is now and still... "not any of the shallow stuff that I have to out-write Brandon Sanderson to create my own meaning and add purpose to".  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":P" title="Stick out tongue    :P"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":P" />if I am buying IP, and I am playing a game - it's because it has a competent setting that acknowledges its magics progressing society/tech over 10,000 years, and does more than stat bumps and funny faces for non-humans.... But that does not matter either.I think what Daggerheart (a game with possibly the least value in its offered 'setting' or 'races' of most any rpg), GRUPS, D&D, Pathfinder, etc etc = offer is just their rules.   They are creating an ecosystem of mechanics by which players who match with those mechanics can play and find easiest to create fun with.They are openly stating "we are just your paint brush and paints, go paint the picture yourself".To which, I say "ok, I get that. You are giving just barely enough "context" (in the form of locations and races) for the group to build their game from."Myself, I no longer want that base, shallow, context of 'elf', 'dwarf', or 'castle town'.   Strip that out even: and I am now just looking at mechanics for what kinda fun our group wants to play with.Legends in the Mist does this best.  Cortex Prime does this very well.  Cypher, GURPS and BRP does this mediocre well, and others fall in-between.   But that's just my own group's preference on mechanics.</blockquote>

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