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Message: <blockquote data-quote="RenleyRenfield" data-source="post: 9815836" data-attributes="member: 7044197">Here is where the thread first unravels for me (and I think [USER=85870]@innerdude[/USER] ) as well.   That's not lore.  What you just described is a kind of  anthropomorphisation just  in reverse.  You are asking how the human behaves kinda catty...  not lore.  not purposeful. just a windowdressing on a human.There is no way to make a cosmetic choice not cosmetic = i strongly disagree.  and I posted early a very concise example of why its 100% false to claim players need a thousand page bible on a non-human race to be far more than window dressing and cosmetics.  There are many tools in both literature and layout design to keep this short, easy to read, and highly meaningful.All of this is either cultural appropriation= Why does the troll have and use eastern martial arts and call themselves 'monk'?I am not saying that is bad. but once again you only describe the worst part = what the troll looks like, and how they perform human actions with a squiggly body.    That's not lore.These are things that drive folks like me away from "races" and other such things, magic, classes, monsters, etc etc;  too.   At the end of the day, everyone is just playing a human.  We still haven't given purpose or interconnected reason why any race even exists.  Let alone why they come up with human only practices <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":P" title="Stick out tongue    :P"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":P" />It's that trite shallowness of personhood that makes it non-valuable at its core.I like this question.  And , for me, this thread serves as both a sounding board for me to say things i think might be true, let people challenge and discuss them, and then step back and revaluate if I still feel that way or if someone changed my mined/educated me.  I personally apricate all folks like you who took time to post thoughtful responses, and give me reason to doubt my own ideas. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />I would like to soften this statement a bit and say maybe that we should not take any of these cases as black or white,  ALL or NONE.To help, maybe we can steer the conversation back towards a more rounded discussion on the topic of =- What is lore?- For those who like that definition of Lore, why is it hard to access or use?- For those who don't like that definition of lore, why? what is missing?- Can we as a group come up with ideas or a way to accommodate lore that also establishes purpose and acknowledge reason for whatever odd bits fantasy settings offer? (races, magic, classes, monsters, etc etc)</blockquote>

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