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Message: <blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 6828348" data-attributes="member: 2067">I think you could even say that someone who just has a maxed Persuasion skill is "best at fighting" if you look at it through the lens of, say, resource optimization - the most efficient use of resources is to avoid every fight that it is possible to avoid, and a maxed Persuasion is there to help achieve that (Stealth would also be a real contender). I think the most defining Fighter feature is Action Surge.A defining feature would have to (1) come online early (ideally in the first 2 levels, but I could probably be persuaded that the first 3 or 4 are OK in some cases) while (2) remaining relevant even in the endgame (scaling is OK), (3) be independent of subclass or ability selection (a defining ability is not one that can be opted out of), (4) be used at least once per short rest (a defining ability is not one that can be only used once a day), and (5) be something no other class is really capable of (a defining ability is not one that someone else can do). So, generally....<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Barbarian: Rage</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Bard: Bardic Inspiration</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Cleric: Channel Divinity</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Druid: Wildshape </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Fighter: Action Surge</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Monk: Ki points (specifically, Flurry of Blows, Patient Defense, and Step of the Wind); debatably, Unarmored Movement</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Paladin: Smite; debatably, Lay on Hands</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Ranger: Natural Explorer; debatably, Primeval Awareness (Favored Enemy arguably should be, but it's too variable and not big enough)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Rogue: Cunning Action; debatably, Sneak Attack. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Sorcerer: Font of Magic / Metamagic</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Warlock: Pact Magic / Invocations</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Wizard: Arcane Recovery</li> </ul>When comparing these, you get different pings of strength and utility on different pillars of play. A druid's wildshape, for instance, is most useful for the exploration pillar - the same place a Ranger's Natural Explorer pings. A cleric's Channel Divinity varies with the subclass, but it's hard to see much use for Smite outside of "killin' baddies." The defining abilities of primary spellcasters are smaller and less impactful than others - Bardic Inspiration is nice, but a d6 doesn't have nearly the force of an extra action or a smite. A Fighter's Action Surge gets most of its mileage in Combat. You could use it outside of combat (in a chase or something), but combat is where the action economy tends to matter the most. Compared to similar action-economy-breaking abilities (Ki points, Cunning Action), it's more of a nova, and more flexible. Without Second Wind, a fighter wouldn't suffer much (it's a bit of an emergency button anyway). Those high-level Extra Attacks and ASI's are nice, but not early enough to be defining or relevant for most of the class. Take them away and replace them and no one worries.But if you take Action Surge from a fighter, you're looking at a significant bit of its identity and unique schtick being stolen.</blockquote>

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