D&D 5E What martial options would make those characters feel equal to casters?

[Ath'kethin]

Since the beginning of time (roughly 1975), non-casters in D&D have felt like they couldn't equal casters in effectiveness or flexibility. In return, non-casters were intended to have a veneer of respectability and trustworthiness that casters couldn't match, raising legions of armies, building fortresses, etc. But with the WotC era essentially dropping or de-emphasizing non-mechanical aspects of character design as well as ditching followers and domain management, martials basically get to be the ones who wave pointy sticks while running, as casters teleport across the universe, raise people from the dead, charm gods, and lay waste to nations.

Some people have no issue with this dichotomy, but others feel that martial characters perpetually get the short end of the stick. Some solutions - such as giving martial characters spell-ish abilities to try and put them on par with the casters, have been met with indifference to outright hostility. So I'm curious: without handicapping casters (which is an option but one I think can be explored separately), what could we add to martials to give them a similar level of effectiveness and flexibility? This thread is meant to be brainstorming, and I welcome any thoughts on the matter. I'll kick off in a response below, which hopefully will be the first one but given the rate I type might not be.

 

[Ath'kethin]

First off, if we look at the characters in terms of the three pillars of modern D&D (combat, exploration, and social interaction), casters have concrete mechanical options in each. They can act as artillery as well as snipers, turn invisible, fly, see long distances, boost ability scores (and therefore ability bonuses), bend minds, create illusions, and generate endless food resources. That's a rough battery to match for non-casters.

One possible solution for combat is an evolution of the old weapon mastery rules from BECMI (well, M anyway), which allowed characters who pumped points into using weapons to do new and different things with them, including additional damage, additional attacks, stunning enemies, what we now call imposing conditions on enemies, etc. Giving martial characters access to actual artillery could also help bridge the gap here, and I'm interested in a mechanic that allows for a cyclical, self-replenishing system that would allow the use of such artillery without the need for hauling around extra bulky equipment (such as, say, a ballista or catapult). Or at least an option that makes such a haul worth it.

For social interaction, maybe "regular Joe" types, i.e. nonspellcasters, get a bonus to skill checks made to interact with commoners (defined here as general populace, not necessarily the NPC/monster of the same name). This check represents the fact that most people are more comfortable interacting with those who are most like them, and the person carrying around bags of sand and playing with rat poop is definitely NOT like most commoners in most places.

Any other ideas?

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

Do you know 3.5 Ed. sourcebook "Tome of Battle: Book of the Nine Swords"? It introduced the martial adept classes, with a special game mechanic, the martial maneuvers. These were special powers in the middle between at-will and once-encounter. Once used they were "spent" needed a special action to "reload". But the game mechanic was too complex to can be used with enemy nPCs, as for example a hobgobling squad. I suggested a lot of times an updated version, but I understand if it arrives, it will be years after the psionic handbook.

 

[Krachek]

Search for Equality is a dead end.
Martial and caster are meant for different roles, feeling, aspect of role play.
If you look for pure equality, you will just eventually transform martial into cloaked caster.
Dont forget that at the base, 5ed is presented as a cooperative game, so players should work together and not try to outshine each others.

 

[Voadam]

Two different pools of inequity here.

Combat options and out of combat utility.

In combat martial abilities generally hit things, increase being tough/defensive, and occasionally give some movement options. Casters have magical options for hitting things (singular targets or areas, targeting various defenses), being defensive, moving, and doing other stuff. As D&D has evolved it has added a few things to the martial pool of abilities, such as evasion and uncanny dodge for rogues in 3e on and free disengagement in 5e, and fighters being able to self heal and action surge.

Out of combat martials have skills. Casters have skills and magic that does other stuff. Rogues and bards and rangers have more skills and do them better, and bards have things like inspiration in addition to spells to do stuff.

4e did a good job of balancing classes and having neat options for martials. To add to 5e stealing things from 4e martials would be a good start. Warlord is particularly rich in mechanical non magical inspiration morale type buffs and options that could be added to 5e. A lot of them are very straightforward.

Iron Heroes was a 3e D20 era variant system where mythic non magical martials were the focus with complex mechanics and options and a ton of different classes. It would be a decent place to look for more options, though the point accumulation and expenditure system it uses (different for each class) is very fiddly.

 

[Eubani]

I am getting tired of hearing "The spellcaster is on your side so it is alright if he consistently outshines you".

 

[Eubani]

How would Wizard players feel if the wizard could only shoot a magic bolt for 1d8 + Int mod damage and use class skills, whilst the fighter gets to choose from a long list of abilities to use throughout the day such as applying the charm and frightened status due to his rep or shortening trips time, etc. That is how the Fighter feels in most cases. Would you enjoy that for 40 odd years whilst everyone telling you to deal with it that's how magic works for wizards? How would a wizard player feel about a fighter pulling out special class abilities that overwrite the current situation whilst you are only allowed to make the occasional ability check. Of course you would fight to get that changed but hey don't worry about it the fighter is on your side so it's no competition so live with your pew pew Wizard.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Combat:
Damage: Most non-casters are able to keep up with casters in single-target damage. AoE they are traditionally bad at, and it is probably fair to leave that as where the casters shine brighter.
Control/utility/buffs/debuffs: If it wasn't for the existence of the Grapple and Shove attacks, non-casters wouldn't just be the worst at this: they wouldn't have anything to be compared with. Outside of a few specific archetypes (Eldritch Knight, Battlemaster etc), non-casters don't have many options.
However, I definitely see most conditions as something that a non-martial could inflict. Some may be at higher levels and require multiple attacks to be sacrificed to do so.

Social: I'm not a fan of the "NPCs can identify your class by sight" abilities, but capabilities inherent to the character themselves are fine. A bonus to Charisma and Wisdom rolls interacting with creatures that base their living around physical combat perhaps?
Possibly also the ability to gauge the probable reaction of a creature (flee, defend, charge, use magic etc) if a fight breaks out.

The problem you have to overcome is the attitude that if a martial character can do it, anyone should be able to. The whole "why can't my Bard dress up as a fighter and get the same bonuses?" "Rogues shouldn't be able to be better at Arcana than Wizards!" and so on.

Exploration: Fighters and Barbarians for example tend to be pigeonholded into only being good at Athletics, because unlike every other class, their main stat is only good for one skill. Furthermore, the sort of physical challenges that they are regarded to excel at are often the ones most easily bypasses by other abilities or spells.
There is also the issue with people regarding modern athletes as the equivalent of epic-level characters, and so judging that the non-casters cannot achieve anything that a chap at the gym could do.

I could definitely see a Fighter, in the same vein as Action Surge, heroically surpassing their limits to produce a cinematic physical feat. At epic levels this could be swimming up a waterfall, catching a boulder and throwing it back at the giant, charging and smashing through a wall.

 

[Stalker0]

We already have a 30+ Page thread dedicated to martial vs caster, so for people that want to have that debate go there. If you disagree with the OP than feel free to go elsewhere.

One concept I’ve always liked was the wildcard feat. A fighter gets a feat slot that he fills in during an encounter. So like a spellcaster, this offers some flexibility in adapting techniques to handle various encounters. You can recharge the ability either per short or long rest depending on preference

 

[NotAYakk]

A sketch of a system.

Profession
Your profession level is equal to your character level minus your spellcasting level. Your profession is what you where good at before you became an adventurer. It grants support, exploration and social abilities.

Fate
Your fate level is equal to your character level minus twice your spellcasting level. Your fate represents how you either destined for something more than a bloody blade, be it by birth, chance or sheer force of will.

When you gain Fate levels, you pick which Path they go towards. Each path has abilities that grow in supernatural character as you proceed along them. Low level Path abilities tend to be support, exploration and social; high level Path abilities break the world.

Some paths require a certain number of total Path levels before you can entire them like Demigod.

Characters can choose to store unused Fate levels for a plot-opportune time to spend them, gaining multiple levels in a Path at once. Whenever you gain a level you can spend up to half (round up) of your new character level in Fate levels, and at the DM's discretion you can spend it at a plot appropriate time.

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"Profession" lets you be a blacksmith and make masterworks.

And your fate paths provide excuses for supernatural capabilities.