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What needs to be fixed in 5E?
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<blockquote data-quote="NewJeffCT" data-source="post: 5705863" data-attributes="member: 10784"><p>The thing is, when the game got to be higher level in 3E/3.5E, the battles often became a contest of the spellcasters buffing the party beforehand, and then dispelling the bad guys' buffing spells during the combat (the party had a cleric, sorcerer and a psion, as well as an allied NPC cleric). So, before a combat, the party would decide which spells to cast on themselves, and once combat started, the caster would focus on debuffing the enemy to make it easier for the party melee types to finish off the bad guys.</p><p></p><p>However, I'll see if I can recall one of the bigger battles towards the end of the campaign, though I won't bore people with all the details.</p><p></p><p>The party was:</p><p>An elf paladin of freedom/champion of Corellon</p><p>A dwarf fighter</p><p>a human sorcerer</p><p>a human cleric</p><p>a halfling psion</p><p>a goliath barbarian</p><p>a human rogue/spellthief</p><p>a human fighter</p><p>an NPC cleric (sister of the PC cleric)</p><p>the sorcerer had a young copper or brass dragon as a companion</p><p>the cleric had an elf scout/ranger as a follower type</p><p></p><p>The PCs were all at level 16, the NPC cleric was 15 and the elf scout follower was level 13 or 14.</p><p></p><p>The setting was a mountaintop lair of some unknown and powerful evil that the PCs needed to vanquish (and, unknown to them, set the timeline to rights...). At the edge of the mountain lair, they cast their buffing spells.</p><p></p><p>The players move in and encounter a large group of zombie ogres... which they quickly plow through as they head deeper into the mountain.</p><p></p><p>Suddenly, flames erupt ahead of them and they hear a deep mocking laugh... the players move forward with caution - the party sorcerer casts his Improved Invisibility. The deep mocking laugh was from a balor, who proceeded to engage the party.</p><p></p><p>The first round was pretty tough on the party, but they did a pretty good amount of damage to the balor. However, in either round 2 or 3, the dwarf fighter got into position to do a full attack and just landed an amazing series of blows - four of his five attacks landed (he was hasted), two of them were crits that confirmed. With his four attacks, he dealt out a good 200 points of damage and sent the balor back to the Abyss. (oh, we make all our "to hit" rolls on the table as well) I was stunned, needless to say.</p><p></p><p>The balor promptly exploded, dealing 100 or 50 points of damage to everybody in the party save the sorcerer (just out of range). This left a few people in pretty bad shape, but nobody was quite dead yet.</p><p></p><p>Right after the balor exploded, however, the party blinked and they were imprisoned in a pair of Force Cages. The lich mastermind walked in and proceeded to attack (the lich had gated in the Balor to allow itself time to cast more buffing spells, then cast Time Stop & two Force Cages to imprison the party - well, everybody but the sorcerer, who was cowering in the back of the room)</p><p></p><p>The lich blasted the two most wounded party members into death - the elf scout & the dwarf fighter (he missed his save on the balor explosion). Luckily, one cleric was able to Revivify the dwarf, who was then healed up by another party member. I think the psion was able to Disintegrate one Force Cage, while the sorcerer cast his Greater Dispel on the lich (who was protected by 9 or 10 different spells, including one that made it immune to all metals, magical or mundane.) </p><p></p><p>Since the lich was also an archmage, it had some advanced counterspelling ability, so it may have actually caused one or two of the initial dispels to rebound on the casters. In the meantime, the other Force Cage got Disintegrated or taken down somehow.</p><p></p><p>But, several rounds of combat ensued because the elf paladin had a sword made out of glass and the goliath had a huge stone greatclub and they could damage the lich physically while the clerics, sorcerer & psion all tried debuffing the lich. </p><p></p><p>However, in one round, the lich Mazed the goliath barbarian, sending her off the board, leaving only the weak hitting elf paladin as somebody that could affect the lich in melee. Amazingly, though, the barbarian rolled a natural 20 on her INT check the next round and popped out of the maze at the end of her turn. </p><p></p><p>the lich pulled out all the stops - nearly every high level spell in the book. I hit the psion with Otto's Irresistible Dance, hit a bunch of them with Horrid Wilting, hit with a Finger of Death, only to see the PC make his save; Delayed Blast Fireball; you name it... plus, a bunch from the Spell Compendium, not to mention 7 or 8 lower level quickened spells. So, the lich was firing two spells a round for most of the combat.</p><p></p><p>Finally, at the end, the lich was being grappled and the party rogue flew above her and hit with a touch attack and poured a maximized potion of cure serious wounds down her throat, doing 39 points of positive energy damage to the lich, effectively killing it. (they had to track the phylactery down, of course). The NPC cleric also got killed with Wail of the Banshee, and I think the sorcerer was dropped once, only to get Revivified.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="NewJeffCT, post: 5705863, member: 10784"] The thing is, when the game got to be higher level in 3E/3.5E, the battles often became a contest of the spellcasters buffing the party beforehand, and then dispelling the bad guys' buffing spells during the combat (the party had a cleric, sorcerer and a psion, as well as an allied NPC cleric). So, before a combat, the party would decide which spells to cast on themselves, and once combat started, the caster would focus on debuffing the enemy to make it easier for the party melee types to finish off the bad guys. However, I'll see if I can recall one of the bigger battles towards the end of the campaign, though I won't bore people with all the details. The party was: An elf paladin of freedom/champion of Corellon A dwarf fighter a human sorcerer a human cleric a halfling psion a goliath barbarian a human rogue/spellthief a human fighter an NPC cleric (sister of the PC cleric) the sorcerer had a young copper or brass dragon as a companion the cleric had an elf scout/ranger as a follower type The PCs were all at level 16, the NPC cleric was 15 and the elf scout follower was level 13 or 14. The setting was a mountaintop lair of some unknown and powerful evil that the PCs needed to vanquish (and, unknown to them, set the timeline to rights...). At the edge of the mountain lair, they cast their buffing spells. The players move in and encounter a large group of zombie ogres... which they quickly plow through as they head deeper into the mountain. Suddenly, flames erupt ahead of them and they hear a deep mocking laugh... the players move forward with caution - the party sorcerer casts his Improved Invisibility. The deep mocking laugh was from a balor, who proceeded to engage the party. The first round was pretty tough on the party, but they did a pretty good amount of damage to the balor. However, in either round 2 or 3, the dwarf fighter got into position to do a full attack and just landed an amazing series of blows - four of his five attacks landed (he was hasted), two of them were crits that confirmed. With his four attacks, he dealt out a good 200 points of damage and sent the balor back to the Abyss. (oh, we make all our "to hit" rolls on the table as well) I was stunned, needless to say. The balor promptly exploded, dealing 100 or 50 points of damage to everybody in the party save the sorcerer (just out of range). This left a few people in pretty bad shape, but nobody was quite dead yet. Right after the balor exploded, however, the party blinked and they were imprisoned in a pair of Force Cages. The lich mastermind walked in and proceeded to attack (the lich had gated in the Balor to allow itself time to cast more buffing spells, then cast Time Stop & two Force Cages to imprison the party - well, everybody but the sorcerer, who was cowering in the back of the room) The lich blasted the two most wounded party members into death - the elf scout & the dwarf fighter (he missed his save on the balor explosion). Luckily, one cleric was able to Revivify the dwarf, who was then healed up by another party member. I think the psion was able to Disintegrate one Force Cage, while the sorcerer cast his Greater Dispel on the lich (who was protected by 9 or 10 different spells, including one that made it immune to all metals, magical or mundane.) Since the lich was also an archmage, it had some advanced counterspelling ability, so it may have actually caused one or two of the initial dispels to rebound on the casters. In the meantime, the other Force Cage got Disintegrated or taken down somehow. But, several rounds of combat ensued because the elf paladin had a sword made out of glass and the goliath had a huge stone greatclub and they could damage the lich physically while the clerics, sorcerer & psion all tried debuffing the lich. However, in one round, the lich Mazed the goliath barbarian, sending her off the board, leaving only the weak hitting elf paladin as somebody that could affect the lich in melee. Amazingly, though, the barbarian rolled a natural 20 on her INT check the next round and popped out of the maze at the end of her turn. the lich pulled out all the stops - nearly every high level spell in the book. I hit the psion with Otto's Irresistible Dance, hit a bunch of them with Horrid Wilting, hit with a Finger of Death, only to see the PC make his save; Delayed Blast Fireball; you name it... plus, a bunch from the Spell Compendium, not to mention 7 or 8 lower level quickened spells. So, the lich was firing two spells a round for most of the combat. Finally, at the end, the lich was being grappled and the party rogue flew above her and hit with a touch attack and poured a maximized potion of cure serious wounds down her throat, doing 39 points of positive energy damage to the lich, effectively killing it. (they had to track the phylactery down, of course). The NPC cleric also got killed with Wail of the Banshee, and I think the sorcerer was dropped once, only to get Revivified. [/QUOTE]
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