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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 5706607" data-attributes="member: 82106">My feeling is there should be a minimum number of big lists. That obviates the tendency for duplication of things and with fewer bigger bins you have an easier time deciding what bin a particular power belongs in. Thus I would largely keep role as more of a description of what you end up with vs being a classification of what you can choose. You'll aim for a certain type of role in how you build the character, and your class/build/whatever features will help reinforce that, but it doesn't have to define which powers you get. That does mean that controllers and leaders will be differentiated more by features, and defenders too, whereas strikers might sort of be more of a default where if you haven't dug into one of the other roles then logically you have resources available to amp up your damage more, so you kind of 'just are' a striker.Particular little lists for things like themes I think are OK. In some sense they could proliferate, but each one really only needs 3-4 powers, so even having 50 themes or similar things wouldn't net a vast amount of bloat. With scaling and a bit fewer powers, and maybe less levels I think we could keep it down to a net of say 500 powers. That would be a good goal. It would be smaller than the later 2e spell list total and should be enough to have something for everyone. In terms of the 'pyramid' I'd say this. You do have 2 levels, power source and class. Beyond that I'd try to move things mostly to something like 'masteries' where those are cross-class. A paladin could thus have 'axe mastery' to use a wicked battle axe, and so could a fighter, and so could a cleric for that matter. They would all do slightly different things, but whatever is attached to that mastery is open to all of them and helps them do it. As for race... Well, honestly I'm not dissatisfied with the 4e approach to race myself. Each race could have a list of possibilities too, and/or act as a pre-req for certain things, maybe shared with other elements, so rangers and elves can both get some special archery sauce with some kind of option they both get. It might even be open to clerics of Selune as well. Beyond that the single racial power, racial PP/ED choices, and possibly some 'feat' options, etc is not bad. A 4e elf definitely feels like an elf (at least to me). Races may be a bit more optimized on certain paths than is perfect, and some of the best choices for specific races are a bit odd and unplanned, but it isn't a huge issue, and in some ways it is actually nice when 4e goes a bit against the established tropes.</blockquote>

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