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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 5709882" data-attributes="member: 2011">At least it's not comparing a 16th level Daily with a 1st level Encounter.Ok.Not quite apples and apples here.SS requires a Standard action whereas DW requires a Minor action.Somebody in design thought "oh no, we can't have a second level Fly. Let's nerf it.".Did you look at the action cost? Do they still seem balanced?Yes, SS has a slight edge in functionality, but not to the point that it costs a Standard compared to a Minor.But since these two powers don't do similar things and are not both just plain movement powers, the comparison isn't that good.Err, what?Why aren't you comparing area attack powers against area attack powers?How about Otherwind Stride vs. Thundering Gust?burst 1, vs. Fortitude, 1d8 + Charisma modifier damage, and the target is immobilized until the end of your next turn, you teleport 5 squares.vs.blast 3, vs. Fortitude, 1d10 + Charisma modifier thunder damage, and you slide the target a number of squares equal to your Dexterity modifier, or with storm magic, if you choose not to slide any targets, until the end of your next turn, you gain a fly speed equal to 1 + your Dexterity modifier, and you can hover.So, some slid opponents vs. some immobilized opponents for 1+ turns.Or, the ability to fly up this round (typically 3 to 5 squares) only if no opponents are next to you (or an OA) assuming that you hit and assuming that you have Storm magic. vs. some immobilized opponents.The teleport. Automatic, whether you hit and whatever type of Cha Warlock you are.It sure sounds like the Teleport power is more useful and powerful since it always works. And, it gives a free 5+ movement. The Fly power gives a Fly speed, so the user has to pay Move Actions to get that move.The main up side for TG is that it does have the option of slide or fly (course, only for certain Sorcerers) and it might do a few extra points of damage. But sliding foes or doing nothing to them, compared to immobilizing them? Yeah, if they are standing next to a cliff, then I guess that sliding them might do something worthwhile.When compared to a comparable area power, I'm not seeing where Thundering Gust wins out or even comes very close.Balanced? Otherwind Stride has an extra move in it over Thundering Gust. It allows the Warlock to get out of grabs. The power isn't gimped if you are not the right type of Warlock. It doesn't provoke OAs with that move. The single teleport move distance of OS with Fey Pack is often similar in distance to using two Move Actions with TG and Storm Sorcerer (i.e. ~8 squares), but OS uses zero move actions and TG uses two to get that type of movement. OS immobilizes the foes vs. TG doing a little extra damage.I'm not quite seeing how Otherwind Stride doesn't have a ton more utility than Thundering Gust for getting out of dodge, for moving a further distance, and for control. Prevent multiple foes from moving and possibly attacking any PCs for a round so that the PCs can focus fire on other foes compared to possibly having the Sorcerer out of harms way for a round?TG might do a few extra points of damage against a few foes. Helpful, but nowhere near as potent as Immobilize.Btw, I played a Sorcerer with TG and observed first hand the advantages and disadvantages of that power. It sometimes had to be combined with an Action point in order to not provoke an OA when one of the foes was standing right next to the PC. If the PC stands 10 feet away in order to make sure that the PC gets the non-OAed flight this round if it hits, the area is really only 2x3 then.Out of curiosity, I went to the CharOp boards and checked out TG and OS. TG was purple (i.e. below average) and OS was considered black (i.e. average), but blue for a Feylock (i.e. above average) and sky blue (i.e. an optimal selection) when combined with a damaging zone like Hunger of Hadar.The reason OS was designed with more umph than TG is because some designer thinks that Fly is super wonderful and Teleport isn't. So, teleport powers are stronger outside of the teleport effect itself. This can be seen in the Dimensional Warp vs. Sorcerous Sirocco example where the one power is a minor and the other is a standard.Fly is considered by some designer(s) to be this uber effect, so they watered the other portions of the fly powers down.As a DM, fly is a bit of a joke. I have dozens of ways of limiting it. Teleport? There's practically no way I can stop it (except by blinding or stunning the PC).</blockquote>

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