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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Crazy Jerome" data-source="post: 5711238" data-attributes="member: 54877">And I think the 3E model is equally bad design, and lazy design to boot. The problem is thinking that "skill" mechanically is supposed to represent anything that is "skill" in the game world. (Nevermind that this has never been true in any version of D&D, given what classes and weapon and spell use are and have been.) The skill mechanic, or something very much like it, is useful for things that are done often in game, often matter, need a range of outcomes, and require limited character resources to excel with. And when looking at "often in game, often matter" we have to consider the range of play and center somewhere on that, not what each individual wants. For example, "Being Sneaky" comes up a lot, across many games, and is not something we want every character getting easily. For things that don't fit that criteria, but meet some of it, some of the time, I have no inherent problem with a separate mechanic, appropriate to the design space. For example, something very much like feats, but siloed away from combat ability, could be one way to include instrument playing ability. Perhaps it is tied to an ability check, or proficiencies, or any number of things. Maybe take all the combat stuff completely out of feats (I'd go for this) and leave feats for stuff not so big--I can speak another language, I can play the flute well, etc.  OTOH, the 3E mindset that says, "Well hey, being a blacksmith is a skill. We've got a working skill system. So we'll just add a Profession option to that skill system, and it will fit in just fine"--that is bad, lazy design. It's a cop out, not thinking hard about what crafting or performance or art or being a shopkeepr means in the context of D&D. As a Hero System fan, you've seen this. Even Hero and GURPS, far more simulation conscious than D&D would ever be, at least give thought to varying scope of skills, and price accordingly. And there are still flaws in their models.</blockquote>

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