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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 5711622" data-attributes="member: 2011">Here's how I view the movement powers from weakest to strongest within combat:1) Shifting (more than one square from a power). The PC moves around, but various terrain and conditions (physical restraint, immobilization, and grabs) do affect it. It doesn't provoke OAs. This should be the type of movement power that mostly shows up at 1 to 4 heroic levels. It's not that good at getting past obstacles, but it's useful for getting past NPCs.2) One move action flying, but PC must land or will fall. The PC moves around, terrain does not affect it, but conditions still do. These powers should start showing up in the level 3 to 5 level range. This is still more powerful than shifting because of the vast utility of getting past traps and avoiding climb checks, even if it does provoke OAs.3) Limited short range combat teleport (i.e. limited to must teleport next to a foe or must attack a foe or something similar). It has all of the advantages of one move action flight, but it doesn't provoke OAs, and it avoids physical restraint, immobilization, and grabs. It should show up in the 4 to 6 level range. Short range combat teleport as a general rule is just a bit more useful than one move action flight because of its stronger tactical positioning capability and ability to just go past foes/hazards unhindered. The main limitation here is blindness/los and that's not really that common with combat teleport because blindness is not common at these levels and it's likely that most foes are within sight.4) One round flying/hover. The PC moves around, terrain does not affect it, but OAs and conditions still do. The ability to be out of melee range for a single round is nice, but far from earth-shattering because we are talking about the fact that the foes can just go attack someone else. As a defense, it is about on par with invisibility since it is not immunity from attacks, just a lesser chance to get hit (fewer foes can attack in the first case, a -5 penalty to attack againt melee or ranged in the second case). Flying also risks the chance of falling, so it's not all that great of an effect. These powers should start showing up in the 6 to 8 level range.5) Short range teleport. It has all of the advantages of one move action flight and combat teleport, but it can go anywhere and be used out of combat. Short range teleport as a general rule is much better than short range flight because of it's ability to go nearly anywhere, regardless of most environmental effects. This is not just what you call tactiport, but many other useful environmental avoidances. It should show up in the 8 to 10 level range. The main limitation here is blindness/los.6) Encounter long flight. This power is obviously stronger than short range teleport. It should start showing up around mid-paragon and that's where we mostly see it.Outside of combat, one round flight does get an advantage of moving over a wall or around a corner, but this type of advantage isn't as prevalent in combat situations.My main problem with these movement powers is that when one compares them to Shift, they are significantly more effective and useful, but still get handed out at first or second level. There's something wrong with that. Argue the actual levels that certain effects should show up however you want, but I doubt you will convince a lot of people that short range teleport or short duration flight is equally balanced with shifting.I think PCs should have to use climb checks and such to get past obstacles at low heroic. The ability to just zip past obstacles should be a higher heroic concept and not handed out like candy.Another balance point that is kind of ignored is the distance of the movement. Isn't moving 6 squares a lot stronger of an effect than moving 3 squares? Lower level powers should move shorter distances. So with the examples above, a 3rd level power might be Flight 3 must land, a 5th level power might be Flight 6 must land, and an 8th level power might be Flight 6 can hover one round. Or some such.I will not argue the merits of all encounter Flight. I see it as a solid ability, but not great. You see it as a major ability. But, that's not my point. My point is that teleport at level one is a LOT more useful than shift at level one or must land flight at level one.That's where the game balance of movement effects is too uber. IMO. Let the PCs struggle with climbing over obstacles for a few levels.Bring back the 10 foot pole. Everyone is a fricking potent spell caster at first level these days.The designers should look carefully at each movement effect for 5E and determine which are more potent/useful and which are weaker, and hand out the weaker effects at lower levels and hand out the stronger effects at higher level. And as levels get higher, even the weaker effects should become more prevalent and have more utility. Game design 101.D&D shouldn't be a game of low level super heroes flying or teleporting all over the place. Again, IMO. Let the PCs build up to the stronger effects as they level up and don't just hand them out like candy at level one.This is what I am arguing against.Ever since the 3.5 Spell Compendium book came out, the designers have gone hog wild with very low level teleports. It was a bigger, better, badder splat book thing in 3.5 and went straight across into 4E.In fact, it's my opinion that the very REASON that when players look at all of the powers for their class at their level and see a third as junk, a third as situationally ok, and a third as pretty good is because the designers did not come up with a list of metarules for game effects, listing the levels at which certain abilities should start showing up and at what power/utility.It's really a hodge podge at most levels for most classes because the game designers did not come up with a game design rulebook for the game designers.</blockquote>

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