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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 5712731" data-attributes="member: 82106">I was right with you up to this point, though my observation is that what you're describing here is basically 4e as it stands today, though it HAS in some cases stepped a bit out of this box. I don't think the 'help someone else' modifiers are the culprit. It is just the sheer number of buffs and debuffs and their weak association with any kind of narrative logic that is the issue. They're a nightmare to track regardless of who grants them, and I don't agree that just because they apply to my character and not your character they somehow get easier to deal with. I would be more tempted to recast them in terms like "when you have a narrative based opportunity to help someone with X kind of thing, you grant them a +5 bonus for their check" and make it an interrupt and put some reasonable range etc on it that reflects how it works within the narrative structure. If you want to play hard and fast totally gamist play, then you can simply assume any situation where the mechanical requirements are met is a valid use. Again, this relates back to my last post, walls between 'combat' and 'non-combat' (really between mechanics and narrative) create the real problems. It is GOOD that a game have precise mechanical rules, but they also need to integrate smoothly with narrative considerations. Refluffing is one powerful way to do that, but it clearly isn't sufficient on its own. Were a 4e-style design to pay careful attention to this factor I think you'd find that the need to 'silo' would largely vanish. That need didn't exist at all in pre-3.x editions of the game, and I think it can be eliminated in a 4e-style system design too. I'd note that some people will try to complain that all of this will lead to a "Only if the DM says I can" kind of situation. Well, I suggest you go back and think hard before making that post. There is NO parsing or arrangement you will ever make that isn't just an utterly gamist chess game that doesn't require adjudication of narrative considerations by someone. You can either put that on the DM or adopt a 'storytelling' kind of option with explicit player plot coupons to let them do that. Pick your poison people, you get one of those three options, and logic dictates there are no others.</blockquote>

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