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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Fanaelialae" data-source="post: 5713721" data-attributes="member: 53980">It's possible to achieve that sense of arbitrary doom in 4e, although I do agree that it's a lot more difficult than in earlier editions.  You just need to utilize monster synergy.One of my DMs ran an encounter last year that I was certain we wouldn't survive.  We had planned an ambush for enemy soldiers and sprung it without a hitch, but then everything went south.  It was an important enemy commander, surrounded by a dozen or so soldier minions.  Even very good rolls couldn't touch the enemy commander, and he was able to resurrect the minions that surrounded him automatically.  We were considering retreat when I had my assassin make a last ditch pull attack against the commander and rolled a natural 20!  Separated from the minions that boosted his defenses, I used an action point to pop a daily, along with all my shrouds, and finished him off.  Without that natural 20 though, we wouldn't have stood a chance.Both creatures came from the Monster Builder.  The commander had some sort of resurrection aura for the minions, and the minions granted a stacking bonus to all defenses for any non-minion adjacent to them.  Perfect synergy.  Admittedly, it's an arguably broken combination, but then there was nothing especially fair about level drain either.It is possible to put the fear of god into the PCs in 4e; just keep in mind that a TPK is a very real possibility when you do.  I'll grant that that's one thing earlier editions did better; scare players without the likelihood of TPK.  I think mechanics of that variety are possible though.  Perhaps energy drain could become long-term hp loss instead.  It might be especially scary if, rather than a quick fix ritual, the only ones who could fix energy drain were a reclusive sect of monks (or some such).  Spells like death ward and greater restoration really took the fear out of scary effects in higher level 3.x, which I feel was a mistake.</blockquote>

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