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<blockquote data-quote="Crazy Jerome" data-source="post: 5716317" data-attributes="member: 54877">The original paladin had to have at least a 17 Cha. Consider how &quot;immediate&quot; (in the sense of, &quot;right there&quot;) some of his abilities were compared to the cleric spells. &nbsp;The funny thing was that at age 14, our initial D&amp;D group had a couple of Pentacostal believers, and as long time friends, all of us had talked about our differences in beliefs. So we picked up on the wider scope of &quot;charisma&quot; right away, and never questioned why the paladin had that requirement. We had to be one of the few teen D&amp;D groups that all knew the meaning of the word before we played D&amp;D. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />&nbsp;We did wonder about the Wis stat for clerics and the Int stat for magic users. For us, a magic user was &quot;Gandalf&quot; and thus a &quot;wizard&quot; or &quot;mage&quot;, and both of those are forms of &quot;wise men&quot;. And it seemed rather odd that the &quot;wise man&quot; who used wisdom for his main ability could do a lot of the standard &quot;holy man&quot; abilities, but wore armor, while the &quot;wise man&quot; that didn't wear armor or even use a sword cast more offensive spells. But then later I read some medieval theology and Jack Vance and figured that last one out. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin&nbsp; &nbsp; :D"&nbsp; data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />&nbsp;And you'll note that &quot;force of will&quot; in the sense of resistance to pressure in the original was in the saving throws, which were rather offbeat.&nbsp;As for Gygax being aware of that meaning of charisma, I have no direct cite or evidence.&nbsp; So I don't know it for a fact.&nbsp; However, when you see someone match a rather unorthodox idea almost point for point, it isn't a huge leap to think they either got it direct or from some intermediate source that didn't change the essentials much.&nbsp; And Gygax was known for appreciating the original sources for ideas when he could get them.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Crazy Jerome, post: 5716317, member: 54877"] The original paladin had to have at least a 17 Cha. Consider how "immediate" (in the sense of, "right there") some of his abilities were compared to the cleric spells. The funny thing was that at age 14, our initial D&D group had a couple of Pentacostal believers, and as long time friends, all of us had talked about our differences in beliefs. So we picked up on the wider scope of "charisma" right away, and never questioned why the paladin had that requirement. We had to be one of the few teen D&D groups that all knew the meaning of the word before we played D&D. :) We [B]did[/B] wonder about the Wis stat for clerics and the Int stat for magic users. For us, a magic user was "Gandalf" and thus a "wizard" or "mage", and both of those are forms of "wise men". And it seemed rather odd that the "wise man" who used wisdom for his main ability could do a lot of the standard "holy man" abilities, but wore armor, while the "wise man" that didn't wear armor or even use a sword cast more offensive spells. But then later I read some medieval theology and Jack Vance and figured that last one out. :D And you'll note that "force of will" in the sense of resistance to pressure in the original was in the saving throws, which were rather offbeat. As for Gygax being aware of that meaning of charisma, I have no direct cite or evidence. So I don't know it for a fact. However, when you see someone match a rather unorthodox idea almost point for point, it isn't a huge leap to think they either got it direct or from some intermediate source that didn't change the essentials much. And Gygax was known for appreciating the original sources for ideas when he could get them. [/QUOTE]

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