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Message: <blockquote data-quote="TwinBahamut" data-source="post: 4299991" data-attributes="member: 32536">I really don't want to derail this thread that much more with an ever-more off-topic discussion, so I will make this my last post on this particular matter.None of these things prove a thing regarding what I am talking about. They prove that he is a celebrated author in his own time, but nothing else. A lot of those names of SFWA Grand Masters are people far more obscure than Vance. Some are lasting notables (Isaac Asimov, Ray Bradbury, Arthur C, Clarke, and Heinlein, for example), but many others are very obscure in of themselves.In the end, all you talked about was influence upon their contemporaries. If you want to prove something about continuing direct relevance to the modern idea of fantasy (the entire point of this discussion), it would be a lot more significant to talk about particular elements of their works that recur constantly, as well as recent sales numbers of their books and the like.You are just being rude here. Of course I looked in the fiction section! Do you think I am an idiot? It doesn't change the fact that I have never seen them. I see tons of other kinds of fantasy novels, and a million and a half Forgotten Realms novels, but I can't recall ever seeing or reading one of their works.I mined out every local library I had access to during my childhood, seeking out every fantasy novel I could find since I enjoyed reading and loved the fantasy genre. I did not encounter the works of these people even once.You can't contradict me just by implying that I am blind. If you want to say something, pull out sales numbers or the like. I will believe those, but I won't just take your word for it that their works are all that famous and popular.White Wolf, huh? Honestly, that makes me even more skeptical. When it comes to book publishing, White Wolf isn't all that impressive. If this guy was a legend, I would expect him to have his collections published by a much larger company...Well, I think it is healthy to be a bit skeptical about a movie that has been optioned for years... Besides, even if it were made there is no reason to suspect that it wouldn't be a B-film that is quickly forgotten. I would have to see either a great film or a film that is part of a much larger continuation of new interpretations and wide fandom for it to match something like Conan (which is the level where it starts gaining lasting relevance)...Really? I don't pay much attention to American comics, really. They don't have much of a presence at all at anything but a dedicated comic shop, so it is hard to really know about them unless you are a fan dedicated to learning more about them. Since I am not, it disappears beneath my radar (which is pretty much my entire point).I still never heard of him until I started coming to ENWorld, and I have never seen one of his books at a bookstore. If they are there, they certainly don't draw much attention to themselves...What can I say?Are you kidding? This has nothing to do with generation and everything to do with lasting widespread popularity. Steven King is incredibly famous and influential. I have known who he was since I was in elementary school, he has written an very large number of very popular books, many of his books are made into big-budget films, and every time he writes a new book the bookstores are more than happy to point out (in big letters) "Here is Steven King's latest book!". He is the very standard of "popular and influential in his own time".The truth is that I always assumed Moorcock was a guy who wrote years ago and was not current, simply because I never heard of him until a lot of people a lot older than me started talking about him. The only time I ever hear him mentioned is with regard to the influence he had on D&D more than 30 years ago. It is not like I see a lot of people shouting out praise for his latest book over in the EN World Media Lounge...If Christopher Marlowe and Shakespeare were the same person, then people would actually still read Marlowe's plays. There are many people touted as "the real Shakespeare", but all of those claims are worthless. This isn't doesn't even work a counter to my basic assertion.Edit: Anyways, to pull this back a little more on topic, let me ask some of the Moorcock fans out there a question. Has Moorcock's works remained static for the last 30 years? Has his influences remained the same? Has his style remained the same? Is there a noticeable difference in tone, style, or characterization between his earliest works and his current ones?</blockquote>

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